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Post by socrates on Nov 11, 2006 14:07:27 GMT -5
When the ptb's came out with their star wars plan, it was knocked down as badly as the Crutzen/Wigley sulfate aerosol schemes were this last year. In the first gulf war it was shown that the star wars missile defense does not work. If these clowns put as much effort into creating peace as they do war, the world would be in awesome shape. Yet, they make money off of innocent blood. They have no love, no heart, no compassion.
I do think chemtrails are mostly for geoengineering and weather modification, yet I am not so naive to discount what Cohen said. While most people try to be good and thoughtful, too many of these pigs are playing God and unfortunately have too much power with no oversight.
I really want to see some accountability for the illegal war, the torture, the suspension of habeus corpus, the (UN)Patriotic Act, the illegal wiretapping, etc., yadda, yadda, etc..
If we allow these clowns to get away with their blatant illegalities, how are we to expect any oversight into the covert illegalities taking place above us?
If nothing really changes when the Dems take over, only cosmetic changes, it just may be time for me to accept that we are in the matrix, that even Olbermann doesn't have a clue, that we are finished.
Yet, this is what "they" want.
"They" want us to have no hope and to hate each other and to just shut up and enjoy the fake milky white/grey skies and ponder over the break up of Brittany/Federline or to discuss Katie Couric's legs. Oh well. Peace.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 11, 2006 22:06:04 GMT -5
Socrates,
Come on Socrates, you know as well as I and everyone else does that we humans have been warring and killing each other since we could walk upright, only the excuses have changed over time, you know the drill, God, country, good Vs. evil, evil Vs. good, all of those righteous reasons that hide the true ones like greed, dominance and power over others to enslave them under the false impression that they are free, nothing in this world is free that amounts to anything.
If we were not killing each other over boundaries or social - political - religious differences or the other in the box reasons, we would invent another reason to kill each other, I swear we humans were put here on this planet just to keep us away from the sane peoples out there in the universe, segregated as not to contaminate the peaceful races.
When you look at George W. Bush and those like him, you have to wonder about that whole evolving thing and whether or not it's really working.
I think that we will get past this very bad black mark on our county's political history but it's going to take the Democrats some time to put right all of the damage that this lunatic Bush and his happy little tribe have done to our system and way of life, I 'm ready to give them some time to sort out their priorities and get started on repairing that damage done by Bush and company, the Democrats are not going to be able to do it overnight and you have to remember, they only won the mid-term election, not the White House, they will do that in 08.
I think that a lot of people expect to see some immediate action by the Democrats to right the wrongs rough by the Neo-Cons, that will happen I think but it's better to be done with cold calculating, meticulous forethought than to rush in for a strong show, we will get them in time although it probably will not be in the way that everyone would like.
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Post by halva on Nov 12, 2006 1:04:21 GMT -5
How 'bout that Reynolds creep and debunkers like that. They all said we were seeing things or had some kind of cloud phobia. They kept lying and saying we were just seeing normal contrails. Maybe this is why cretins like Reynolds have nothing left to say and can only try to obfuscate by calling Chem11 his buddy. Reynolds is the one who has been put to shame by science. He is the one who must come to terms with his chemtrail debunking hoax having hurt the environment. Reynolds is another fat pig like Rush Limbaugh, just another waterboy for greedy factions. Global Dimming has exposed him for the fool he is. If he is not a fool, then he must be a disinfo peddler. Either way he is a chump who has been finally debunked by hard science. ;D Reynolds has been checkmated many times before. What normally happens when that occurs is that other debunkers fill in for him for a while until the discussion can be steered back to terrain on which he can make a comeback. I must say that I am pissed with Chem for deleting those posts I made on local government politics in Greece. I could be making good use of them. My fault for posting them at Megasprayer and nowhere else.
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Post by BigBunny on Nov 12, 2006 5:40:46 GMT -5
How much longer?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 12, 2006 10:24:34 GMT -5
BigBunny wrote,
"How much longer?" ___________________
With regard to what?_BigBunny.
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Post by CDsNuTz on Nov 12, 2006 10:28:14 GMT -5
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Post by socrates on Nov 12, 2006 11:22:01 GMT -5
Hey AltitudeLou, I feel your pain, but disagree. I think the reason anyone commits atrocities is because they have been socialized to find such activities acceptable. The Brazilian Paulo Freire, who wrote the classic Pedagogy of the Oppressed argued that the main difference between animals and humans is that we are able to reflect on our history. He spoke of conscientization. He fought for the promotion of literacy and democracy. He not only wanted an educated people, he wanted an aware people. If one looks back to the enlightenment, there were two thinkers who had a lot to do with the formation of democratic thought, yet started from opposite viewpoints. They both argued for social contracts. Hobbes thought we were beasts who needed laws to keep us in check. John Locke, however, felt we were born with tabula rasa, the clean slate. Now, I go with Locke's view, except for perhaps some laws of karma involved with reincarnation, that we arrive here like a clean board, then as we experience life, those events shape us. He was arguing for laws to help guide us through our associations. OK, let's look at Shaka Zulu, the Napoleon of Africa. He didn't simply massacre the opposition. If the other side was no match, there wouldn't even be any fighting. The weaker side would simply integrate into Shaka's side. While this was still involving warfare, there was a level of humanity that we find missing from US imperial policies. Depleted Uranium and white phosphurus and war in general is not supposed to be going on. It is the military industrial complex and the lack of intellectual fortitude by Americans that keeps this crap flowing. War is not natural. It is done for profit for the few. It could be stopped if we wanted it to be. John Lennon "War is over if You want it..." Now how are wars or even chemtrails or any other fairly blatant injustice able to persist? I believe they continue because of man-made greed and hatred. This greed is not organic. It can be defeated. Yet first we will have to reform education and media. That fake postings are all over the media has distorted social reality and led to much disillusionment. The masses need to hone their bullshit detectors. At one blog I have noticed the meme being sent forth that Iraqis themselves are to blame for over 150,000 of their own deaths. Such fakes never mention the white phosphorus incident or the depleted uranium. They don't go near that the US illegally invaded Iraq and created the situation there. They make it seem that the US soldiers haven't killed anyone, that they are simply being caught in the line of fire. Hogwash. The US Military Industrial Complex has blood all over their hands and their propaganda. They have created most of the wars that go on. The US sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq. We've all seen the photo of Rumsturd shaking hands with Hussein. I'll try to wrap this up. I agree with your analysis of the Democratics. (I call them Democratics, because I refuse to accept the subliminal assaults on that party as that they are rats.) It is going to take them time to clean up the mess. Hopefully, since the neocons have committed such blatant war crimes, it will never be easy for them again to wage illegal wars under the guise of their doublespeak and outright lies. I think we are on the verge of "the age of aquarius" with peace, love, and understanding. I feel it is very important that we not fall for the astroturfing. We are not a bitterly divided nation. We are just uninformed and subsequently easily duped. We are in the process of taking "baby steps" out of this quagmire. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one................
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Post by socrates on Nov 12, 2006 11:36:22 GMT -5
And I just want to point out, this is very important, I do not want my words taken out of context........ If someone has a problem with Katie Couric's news style, whether she is a saleswoman masquerading as a journalist or whether she is too giddy, that is one thing. But there is no reason to attack her because of her legs ;D
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Post by socrates on Nov 12, 2006 11:51:00 GMT -5
I think if people look and reflect on the alternative websites like Rense and prison planet, they will see that they are trying to make us so disillusioned to the point of utter fear. The new strategy is to attack the Democratics. There is an agenda out there to continue to strip us of our power as we the people. This is why so many come out with how the Democratics are no different than the Republiscums. I find such manipulative ideas to be transparent. It's one thing to have a healthy skepticism. It is quite another to continually pepper us with shady sources that want us to fall into a debilitating cynicism.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 12, 2006 20:54:25 GMT -5
Hi Sorrates,
I'm far to tired to go into this deep philosophical stuff tonight, I'll just say that your right and let it go at that.
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 9:56:07 GMT -5
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Post by socrates on Nov 13, 2006 12:41:35 GMT -5
I didn't know Barnes had changed his tune, otherwise I WOULD have mentioned it. When I give links, it is usually after finding them through search engines. I am not into playing gotcha like Reynolds.
I am more bothered by backstabbers and fifth columnists like BoomerChick and others than by Reynolds reading every post on these forums and generating his own slant to them.
I, like many others, have decided not to interact with YOU. Unless you wish to take this to an appropriate venue such as Chem11's Wayne Hall and the Marketing of Pollution. DBS is a joke. And Swampgas has repeatedly told us not to make antagonizing posts at Gastronamus. I guess you forgot about that.
Whether Barnes is a strawman, a debunker, or is someone who simply doesn't believe in chemtrails, all we are seeing here is more marketing of the confusion of pollution.
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Post by socrates on Nov 13, 2006 12:59:44 GMT -5
And one other thing, even if Barnes is saying there are no chemtrails, he is still saying that aircraft emissions are causing environmental distress. That's a far cry from Reynolds saying what we see is harmless water vapour. Barnes from the link given by Reynolds: (The link is in capitals, not my emphasis) "AND THERE IS GROWING SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THE INFLUENCE OF CONTRAILS COULD BE AS BAD AS CO2 PER SE. AND CONTRAILS DO CAUSE GLOBAL CHANGE, MESSING UP FORMER DEEP BLUE SKIES ETC. AND CONTRAILS DO CAUSE LOCAL CLIMATE CHANGE –MICROCLIMATE FORMATION OR INADVERTENT WEATHER MODIFICATION. FOR THESE REASONS AND THOSE BELOW THERE IS PRESENTLY INTENSE SCIENTIFIC INTEREST IN CONTRAILS AND THE RELATED TOPIC OF ATMOSPHERIC AEROSOLS."
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Post by socrates on Nov 13, 2006 15:37:57 GMT -5
Reynolds is just another facet of the fakery that exists on the internet. He is an astroturfer. It is his role to make it seem that there is a grassroots movement that doesn't believe in global warming and is pro war. That fakery is widespread on the internet has been exposed plenty. The only part of the game left is whether someone is a paid troll or whether they are a useful idiot to such forces. The last couple days it has turned out that the person sending out fake anthrax to people like Pelosi and Olbermann has been a prolific freeper poster. A DU poster uncovered that this person is almost certainly the same. Man arrested in fake anthrax attacks an avid free republic posterOne link I found at the above thread led me to Free Republic. Liberal blog claims "fake anthrax" mailer is a FreeperHere I noticed something that lends credibility to this idea of astroturfing and fake posts. Reply #36: To: PghBaldy "I've sometimes read Daily Kos & DU, and have called/emailed authorities (Secret Service) on some DU posts." 36 posted on 11/13/2006 12:03:12 PM PST by PghBaldy Huh? Someone posted to themselves? Someone who uses multiple id's in the pursuit of astroturfing forgot who he was supposed to be? The honest person will admit when they are wrong. The honest person will listen to the other side and respond to their words. The honest person will not twist materials in such a way to serve their agenda. The fake trolls, whether strawmen, dishonest debunkers, or useful idiots eventually mess up and give away their true intentions. While Reynolds is willing to use the words of Barnes to argue that chemtrails is a hoax, he is unwilling to use such words when they show that aircraft emissions are wreaking havoc on the atmosphere.
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 15:47:34 GMT -5
And one other thing, even if Barnes is saying there are no chemtrails, he is still saying that aircraft emissions are causing environmental distress. That's a far cry from Reynolds saying what we see is harmless water vapour. The approval you were expressing for this Barnes reminds me of the approval Deborah was expressing for Stavros Dimas, whose honesty on the subject of geoengineering I described in my account of the reception he spoke at last week. There are two red herring debates: the climate change debate, as presently conducted (of which the aviation emissions debate is a sub-category) and the chemtrails/contrails debate. /Both these debates should be replaced by a debate over whether “geoengineering” is a proper response to climate change. To repeat what I said at DBS, there can be NO integration of the subject of weather modification/chemtrails/geoengineering into democratic processes until SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is willing to take POLITICAL RESPONSIBILITY for what is happening. Not pretending that it isn’t happening, and is just a matter of future proposals. And not pretending that it is just a matter of “accidental” aircraft emissions. If politicians are not willing to take this responsibility, they will be cast aside. I will tell you what my goals are in relation to Reynolds. I want him either to “get serious” in the sense of ceasing to lie and start using his knowledge for the benefit of his fellow citizens, or I want him to withdraw, to go away, to start minding his own business and cease playing politics. You do not give any indication of what you would like him, and people like him, to do, except that you have no objection to him “generating his own slant” to what you post. In other words you accept him as a legitimate participant in our discussions. To me this is tantamount to saying that you do not wish, or hope, to liberate your own society, meaning that others have to liberate it for you.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 15:49:00 GMT -5
The idea that commercial airline carriers routinely discharge human sewage and waste water while in flight is a myth put forward by people like Dr. Chris Barnes that shows just how conveniently ignorant they are when they say things like " Blood cells are present in feces flushed from aircraft toilets", when in fact commercial airline carriers use holding tanks that are only emptied once the aircraft has landed, Barnes does not know what he is talking about, period ! There have been instances of "Blue Ice" or "Brown Ice" falling out of the sky but those instances have been rare and due to incompetence, mechanical failure or in very rare cases a deliberate dumping of material. It took me five minutes (see below) to find the truth, why people like Barnes and Reynolds can not is obvious, they have an agenda to obfuscate and abuse the truth to mislead. What the Hell is Wayne's agenda in bringing his Reynolds rap crap here, just to start another fight ? ( That's just what Reynolds would like to see, so, Wayne, why are you being Reynolds proxy boy?) ___________________________________________________ From the International Flight Information Manual / The Federal Aviation Administration. www.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/ifim0303.htmSection: PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES APPLIED TO AIRCRAFT c. Aircraft inbound or outbound on an international flight shall not discharge over the United States any excrement or waste water or other polluting materials. Arriving aircraft shall discharge such matter only at servicing areas approved under regulations cited above.
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 15:54:42 GMT -5
I want to develop a collective approach to dealing with Reynolds. I really think that if you want to keep sniping at him, you should do it in a situation where he can argue back, as at DBS.
Either that or talk about him out of his sight in the Discussion Lounge here.
If you don't do this you are just making more work for me.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:12:31 GMT -5
Wayne / Halva wrote,
"You do not give any indication of what you would like him, and people like him, to do, except that you have no objection to him “generating his own slant” to what you post. In other words you accept him as a legitimate participant in our discussions."
"To me this is tantamount to saying that you do not wish, or hope, to liberate your own society, meaning that others have to liberate it for you." _________________________________________________
Wayne, your such an ass, one day your hollering at us to ignore your evil twin "Reynolds" and the next day your coming here and throwing him in our faces, why can't you and the "Dick Breath Reynolds" stay at DBS out of our hair, why do you bringing your crap to us so we have to deal with it ?
We don't accept Reynolds in our discussions to use his BS as talking points, that's the whole point of him not being here Dumb Ass, he can't post here so why are you being his proxy, do you like starting SHIT ?
No one is going to go to DBS because Rat Boy is there nearly all by himself, why can't you leave him there where he can't bother us?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:18:44 GMT -5
"We don't accept Reynolds in our discussions, only to use his BS as talking points"
Man, your pissing me off Wayne, to bad if you don't like us bitching about Reynolds and his BS here, that's our business, not yours, you don't like dealing with the prick at DBS, then go someplace else, don't come here bitching about "Poor You", grow up !
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 16:23:35 GMT -5
Wayne / Halva wrote, "You do not give any indication of what you would like him, and people like him, to do, except that you have no objection to him “generating his own slant” to what you post. In other words you accept him as a legitimate participant in our discussions." "To me this is tantamount to saying that you do not wish, or hope, to liberate your own society, meaning that others have to liberate it for you." _________________________________________________ Wayne, your such an ass, one day your hollering at us to ignore your evil twin "Reynolds" and the next day your coming here and throwing him in our faces, why can't you and the "Dick Breath Reynolds" stay at DBS out of our hair, why do you bringing your crap to us so we have to deal with it ? We don't accept Reynolds in our discussions to use his BS as talking points, that's the whole point of him not being here Dumb Ass, he can't post here so why are you being his proxy, do you like starting SHIT ? No one is going to go to DBS because Rat Boy is there nearly all by himself, why can't you leave him there where he can't bother us? I never initiate the subject of Reynolds here. I might respond to others mentioning him. If you did not talk about him here, I would not have to disagree with you and argue with you.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:27:23 GMT -5
Well Wayne, we are going to talk about him and his ignorance here, so get over it !
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 16:29:51 GMT -5
And I am going to disagree with you.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:30:09 GMT -5
"If you did not talk about him here, I would not have to disagree with you and argue with you." _________________________
Someone holding a gun to your head Wayne ?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:31:35 GMT -5
Why do you care so much about us talking about Reynolds anyway?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:33:28 GMT -5
I guess that anything that we want to talk about has to be cleared through you now, A-What?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:35:37 GMT -5
Wayne, no wonder you got your ass kicked over at Chem11's, your an idiot !
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 16:36:40 GMT -5
As at Megasprayer, I would prefer to try to find common ground, but if you want to have a battle of wills.......well, you can have it, I suppose. I don't know.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:42:19 GMT -5
Wayne,speaking of wills, you did not answer my question, why are you acting as reynolds proxy in bringing his SHIT here?
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 13, 2006 16:53:09 GMT -5
Wayne,speaking of wills OR LACK THEREOF, you did not answer my question, why are you acting as reynolds proxy in bringing his SHIT here?
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Post by halva on Nov 13, 2006 16:53:45 GMT -5
Check back on the posts and see if you can find examples of ME introducing Reynolds apropos of nothing.
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