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Post by socrates on Dec 6, 2006 22:13:26 GMT -5
Socrates wrote, "Then when one learns that the USAF doesn't have to comply with sulfur specifications that the commercial flights do, it really makes one wonder why sulfates aren't mentioned that much." ___________________________________________________ True Socrates, the military is exempt from sulfur content regulations as a fuel additive but we are still talking about an additive to produce lubrication and pollution in parts per million, this is finite pollution as compared to what we are seeing being done with the spraying, perhaps no one is talking about direct sulfur injection because of the adverse affects it will have on the environment,.....maybe that's exactly what we should be talking about. From Wayne Hall and the Marketing of Air Pollution: posted by Chem11: ...Back to my thing. Environmental Analysis of Possible Sulfur Increases in USAF Jet Fuels: link"the DOD planned to request a blanket EPA exemption to use standard JP-8 fuel instead of LSDF or low-sulfur JP-8 fuel....": link"The current sulfur content for California diesel fuel is 500 ppmw or .05%. Under the new regulation the sulfur content will 15 ppmw or 0.0015 ppmw. The new sulfur standard will reduce sulfur emissions in California by 88%... Military specification fuels such as JP-4, JP-5, and JP-8 used in qualify military vehicles fall under the National Security Exemption and are exempt from the requirement." link posted by chem11: By way of comparison, the spcec limit for JP8 is 3000 ppm (you're welcome, Wayne). Us? Restricted to 15 PPM. Them? 200 times that. Interesting that high-sulfate jet fuel is considered a matter of National Security, no?
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Post by socrates on Dec 6, 2006 22:13:56 GMT -5
They can be run "dirty" also.
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 6, 2006 23:10:03 GMT -5
Yes indeed they can, with today's computer controlled avionics all it takes to adjust the fuel mixtures for the engines is a dial on the master control panel once the automatic fuel adjusters are shut off, mind you get them to rich and you risk flooding which could cause an engine to stall and then not restart, that's why the auto fuel adjusters are on under normal flight conditions, or so I have been told.
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 7, 2006 1:37:42 GMT -5
Found at,... www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?s=851e8cce22450823c93353c4944ef48d&p=700524#post700524Post 3.021 Quote: The King of Shit Reynolds "'Socrates', Lou Aubuchont, David Stewart, Wayne, Carnicom, William Thomas, Et in Arcadia Ego, Swampy, all these people at one time or another have made claims to have this sort of information, to "know somebody who said something", to have "proof of spraying", to have "documentation", but never come out and show it. One has to wonder if they are just making stuff up for fun, to keep the 'marks' targeted for the hoax 'on the hook', or if they are just part of the hoax disinformation nexus." ______________________________________________ Reynolds is long on wind and short on memory, you could say that he enjoys a selective memory and chooses to ignore all photographic evidence, all the evidence of observers and when someone does offer up scientific evidence he immediately refutes it as coming from unreliably source such as he has done with Scott Stevens weatherwars.info site, CTC and Jeff Rense, that is unless he want's to use them as a credible, reliable source, Oh, yes, then that's a different story, because he is using them to support his bullshit we are supposed to accept it as if from God's mouth but we are not allowed to use the same sources to support our position on Chemtrail's, Oh no, Lord Reynolds can not allow it. ( Friggen Hypocrite and full time asshole ) Hey Shit for brains 'johnny spray', debunk this,....http://watchthesky.org/chems/chemdata.htm I just looked up the soundings for 11/25/06 when we had a major spraying up here in Maine and New Hampshire, the sky was full of jets making long thick trail's that turned into so called persistent contrail's, the only thing is the atmospheric conditions between twenty and forty thousand feet had barely enough humidity to support the formation of normal shot lived contrail's let alone the formation of persistent contrail's, it was impossible for persistent contrail's to form here on the 25th. I not only looked up the soundings from Maine but Mass, and two stations in New York state, none of them had humidity readings at altitude that would support the formation of persistent contrail's on 11/25/06. You say your a man of science (Ha) and you will only accept scientific empirical evidence that Chemtrail's are real, well, asshole, why did we have spreading, allegedly persistent contrail's on the 25th of November when the National Weather Service says that on the 25th of November there was not enough humidity over the North East to support the production of persistent contrail's, what was it that we where seeing that was spreading across our sky here if it was not resistant contrail's made from so called contrail's, Chemtrail's, that's what we where seeing being made, there is no other rational explanation. Even the great Patrick Minnis would agree that persistent contrail's can not form in an atmosphere of more than -40 C. at a minimum of 60% humidity, two factors that are a must have for the formation of persistent contrail's, so, Oh great Arkansas onion Oracle, lord of all knowledge, doer of everything known to humankind, tell us, what if not persistent contrail's where we seeing being made on the 25th of November in our sky's? (Moron) You speak with authority but your authority amounts to that of recycled beans, nothing but hot air passing through your puckered little pinch faced lips, no wonder people call you "ASSHOLE", you are all of that and more !
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Post by marklookingup on Dec 8, 2006 2:26:51 GMT -5
And those are his good points!
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 8, 2006 7:26:36 GMT -5
Johnny Spray is irrelevant. Look to "Liberal" types like Stweart Brand, James Lovelock, and BroomStick to be the next spokespeople for the acceptance of Geo--Engineering.
Halva simply has absorbed too much of Debate Both Sides, and needs a good vacation from that. Unless, as many think, he is one of these Liberal types that are getting us uused to the idea of pollution, nuclear energy, and aersol mitigation.
Hope not halva
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 9, 2006 18:51:00 GMT -5
Johnny Spray, Ed Smell, Broomstick, they have all cut and run away from the information found at,... watchthesky.org/chems/chemdata.htm , "Chemtrail's, the evidence". None of them have made a single post at DBS debunking this information, wonder why ? Johnny has been yelling in big bold red letters for how long now that he will only accept empirical scientific evidence and now that it's put in front of him he has nothing to say about it, what a freaking hypocrite, where is that big debunking mouth and his lap dogs now ? Wayne I think just likes to argue of argument sake, for all of his talk I don't see him trying to advance the means to uncover this Worldwide Chemtrail Spraying Operation, in fact he has stated that it is even "Dumb" to argue whether or not they are real, I have no reason to regard anything that Wayne Hall says as something useful in the pursuit of truth concerning the Chemtrail Spraying issue, as far as I am concerned, He is an outsider and can stay that way, I will waste no more of my time on him or his geo-engineering theories !
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Post by halva on Dec 9, 2006 23:03:31 GMT -5
It's a good point you make here, but I insist that it is dumb to try to use this information to prove anything to Johnnyspray, not that it may not be useful to use it with other people perhaps.
Johnnyspray has isolated himself from his own natural political and social constituency. That is his vulnerability He can also be tricked into making an even bigger fool of himself.
You have said before that you are going to stop talking to me. We'll see if you can keep your word on that because I have more or less decided to take the other half of your advice, which is mainly (in my English-language posting) to work from here rather than DBS.
The strategy for use with the debunkers should be for Swamp Gas to go ahead with his action against Smell, who iis calling his bluff, for the argument between Smell and Whitemajicman to be encouraged, and for anyone else who wants to come in and play tricks on Johnnyspray to be helped from here.
I can't stop you from keeping up your contrail vs chemtrail polemic with Johnnyspray. Admittedly the link above seems to be powerful ammunition, but when the person you are arguing with is so skilled at the use of equivocation, belligerence and sowing divisions among his opponents I doubt that the strategy will bring you any more success in future than it has to date. Prove me wrong if you want to, and if you can.
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Post by halva on Dec 9, 2006 23:11:55 GMT -5
I may intervene at DBS in support of your strategy if I think it is proceeding intelligently.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 9, 2006 23:39:40 GMT -5
I'm not bluffing. I have contacted the FBI, and Smell slipped up in two posts from another forum and didn't use a proxy. I know where he lives and so does his ISP. When I described what Smelly is posting, they said it comes under the new federal statute. Suburban Propane thought I was bluffing when Theta and I brought the ACLU and a team of lawyers down on them for attempting illegal drug testing, and another worker at a job tried to harass me for speaking out against Reagan, first Bush, and the flag. Nat Hentoff was behind me, as was the Village Voice. They all thought I was bluffing. As I said, I can't do anything about him on other sites, as long as he doesn't use my real name. If he comes here, he is in trouble. He has not actually caused bodily or financial harm, just being a nuisance, but a nuisnace becomes dangerous if you let them continue. He probably is trying to hack into my machines, but with no results.
So let's drop this subject, OK halva. I'm not wasting my time with Smelly other than the parody he is. If I go to DBS and engage him, that's EXACTLY what he wants.
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Post by socrates on Dec 10, 2006 14:36:30 GMT -5
Carnicom's got slammed with debunker posts yesterday from someone(Smell?) named Thinkalittlebit, who registered on 12/7/06. Look closer at chemtrailsHere was a nice reply by goldbaron357: "You know... I have read a really good book... And do you know what it says? "The scoffers are willingly ignorant." And to translate that, it means dumb on purpose! Philosophy means "Love of man's wisdom"... Man is not wise. For hundreds of years man taught that the EARTH was the center of the solar system and everything revolved around it. People even died trying to say otherwise! Science disproved it. Science AND common sense disproves that these Chemtrails are just simple contrails. My understanding of how this stuff works is simple. A normal contrail dissipates quickly because there are no particles (or at least not enough) being dumped for the moisture to bond to to form clouds. Chemicals, when sprayed, are merely particles in suspension. They must either fall to earth, stay put up in the sky, or be converted into some other form of matter where they will disappear. And I suppose you would deny ANY chemicals are sprayed in the air... Well it is a known fact that years ago Silver Iodide was dumped in the cloud banks to encourage water to accumulate so it could rain! Silver Iodide is not really destructive, but I suspect when they discovered they could use more chemicals than just Silver Iodide, they uncorked the Genie from the bottle! So to the people who don't believe, you will be as sheeps led blindly to the slaughter. I suppose those people who do not believe chemtrails are real and destructive, also believe the government had nothing to do with Waco and Ruby Ridge... If any entity, government included is perverted enough as to kill it's own civilians, it cannot be trusted! By the way, I wonder if anyone has talked to Ralph Nader about these chemtrails? :-) Oh, and how many of you, on a very hot and muggy and highly humid day down in the south can boil a pot of water and cause steam? Does the steam disappear? Or just hang around forever? It seems to me, water vapor, and condensation trails are going to disappear readily in any environment, but the time may vary... I do not think any real contrail will exist for more than a few hours. I grew up in the 90's... It was not until the late 90's that I have any recollection of seeing contrails last more than an hour! Then all of a sudden, every given clear day, you would see trails, in grid formation, that would last for many hours. There is no way these can be explained away as contrails. Anyways, that is my two cents, and I am going to jump off of my soapbox until next time. People have a right to learn the truth, and people also have the right to be stupid. Knowledge is a weapon and I intend to be formidably armed."
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Post by socrates on Dec 10, 2006 14:49:11 GMT -5
Kola is kind of growing on me. I realize I started a thread wondering why he was calling a "global warming" chemmie a debunker, but I think everyone interested in "chemtrails" can evolve. Plus, it isn't difficult to see why "global warming" mitigation might seem far-fetched, I mean, it doesn't seem to be working if that is the main goal. Personally, I have been moving towards thinking this is primarily about an ozone hole mitigation project. I do think that they are gaining insights into how to spread their crap around, and that such information may be applied to the Dr. Evil type crap. But, I just wanted to say I appreciate Kola's posts at Carnicom's of late. I also acknowledge that a belief in sylphs can be a legitemate Native American belief, not sure if Kola is Native-American or even if it is any of my business. But uhm, Kola just wrote an open letter to Carnicom. If he doesn't respond, then I guess we can just about write that place off, or atleast get our scrolling skills updated. Thanks Kola. Dear Mr. Carnicomposted by Kola: Mr Clifford Carnicom, your chemtrail discussion forum is a disgrace. You laid down rules/disclaimers on how you want the forum to run yet you let it run amuck. When is the last time you read the material here? Do you find it acceptable? It surely seems to disagree with the disclaimer/rules that you presented on your forum "code of conduct". When is the last time you posted anything new to your site and when was the last time you made a comment in this forum? Clifford Carnicom you are a hypocrite. Wake up Cliff. Tell us what you have been doing lately. Anything at all? ARE YOU EVEN ALIVE??? IF SO, DO YOU CARE TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU LET YOUR FORUM CARRY ON LIKE A 3 RING CIRCUS ACT?? Tell me Cliff, what have you been doing lately? Sincerely, Kola
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 10, 2006 15:04:18 GMT -5
Smell is thinklikeshit. The writing is similar. Smell/Smell himself is trying to be polite on Carnicom's. He must have read the law on Cyber-Stalking section 113, and see he is indeed breaking federal law, and he may run into somebody that is not quite as tolerant as me, that will not even give him a second chance.
Chemtemplation. I have seen some dubious posts by this person before. Could this also be WMM/Smell/Jason?
Kola is handling himself pretty good, and yes Carnicom is scarce as hen's teeth
Smelly Smell is again pushing the envelope, and he knows Carnicom is not there to use the same law against him to keep him at bay. Personally, I have no desire to go there and confront him since it is not my board, but Kola comes here, and knows the score.
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Post by kola on Dec 10, 2006 16:51:19 GMT -5
To Socrates and others,
I enjoy this site because there are a good group of smart folks here.
Yes, I am only half Native American but was raised by my full blood grandmother who was Seneca tribe, Iroqouis Nation so my beliefs are a bit different than many people. My native name is Kola which means "brother/friend and warrior." Many Natives named their battle horses Kola and often slept with them the night before battle. I can be a great friend to many good people but yet be a fierce warrior to an enemy, if need be. From star study beliefs I am a gemini, (the twin) so it is in my blood and connected with the universe to easily take on my split roles.
Yes, I have evolved from first time I observed a chemtrail. And yes, I have Native beliefs that are hard for many people to understand and I sometimes get ridiculed for what has been passed down through my people.
I have challenged Mr. Carnicom because I believe it was needed. I want him to show his colors...and it is mostly due to my frustrations. My frustration that this aerosol assault of the skies has been going on for over 7 years and nothing has stopped it. In fact, it has gotten worse, IMO.
I do not want to see this chemtrail distruction continue and I am ready to go to war, do whatever it takes to stop it. My emails, letters and phones calls to political pigs and the corporate media whores were all wasted time and energy. Then I have to continually read the stench that Smell/Ed/Chemtemplation/ 767 etc etc continue to belch out on forums without moderation.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. It is time to find out who the REAL good guys are. That is why I confronted Carnicom. (btw I have written him several emails with no response). Let us see what he is made of. If I am wrong I will humbly apologize to him.
Kola
btw, are any of you familiar with the big meeting of the Navajo and Hopi in which they discussed the chemtrail issue? They elected not to discuss it publicly, protest it or bring awarreness to other people. Their reason? They feel the whitemen (and everyone else) will call them crazy and them (and others) will only think the chemical spraying in happening in Arizona and people will stop coming to their gambling casinos. This saddened me as IMO they "sold out". But more importantly they made it clear that a big part of their decision to remain silent was to let the prophecy run its course and it is the beginning of The Great Purification.
Allthough they (and others) may be right, I choose to fight.
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Post by socrates on Dec 10, 2006 18:48:11 GMT -5
Smell is thinklikeshit. The writing is similar. Smell/Smell himself is trying to be polite on Carnicom's. He must have read the law on Cyber-Stalking section 113, and see he is indeed breaking federal law, and he may run into somebody that is not quite as tolerant as me, that will not even give him a second chance. Chemtemplation. I have seen some dubious posts by this person before. Could this also be WMM/Smell/Jason? Kola is handling himself pretty good, and yes Carnicom is scarce as hen's teeth Smelly Smell is again pushing the envelope, and he knows Carnicom is not there to use the same law against him to keep him at bay. Personally, I have no desire to go there and confront him since it is not my board, but Kola comes here, and knows the score. Chemtemplation is a paid character and appears to be WMM. I think most of these a-holes are paid characters and perhaps a few are useful idiots. None of them seem organic. posted by Chemtemplation (from the link above): "P.S. Smell... Are you still trying to use LOGIC on Kola? Shame on you! You should have already figured out what an exercise in futility that is. " So a "chemmie" supports Smell in the same post in which he attacks Kola. And all Kola has done is ask why the disclaimer on debunkers isn't enforced. Chemtemplation is a troll name devised against chem11, just as Cydoniaquest was chosen to snipe at Sedona. These are paid fakes!!!! Swamp, smelly is still lying about you over at DBS, that when he "quoted you" it were your exact words. He says as long as your forum is public, he will sign up and post whenever he wants to. What a loser. This is entertainment to him? Trolling on a topic he doesn't believe in? He's paid too. I think 2-5 guys run this show. They are the ones too stupid to fly the planes or work on the chemicals/applications, not that those other shitheads have any real brains either. They stink.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 10, 2006 21:29:41 GMT -5
Actually, Smelly's posts are spam, profanity, hate, and obscenity, which violate the terms of service of Proboards. It is up to me whether I leave them on or not. If I do, then I risk loosing the site. As Admin, it is my discretion to ban him or not. I may pay the money to get ad-free and then it really will lock him out. Right now, he is violating Cyber-stalker Law section 113.
He is a stupid Redneck from Phoenix, and gets his jollies out of harassing Hippies, Liberals, and Constitutionalists, since he is none of the three. People like him are rejects from FreeRepublic, and I know Liberty Forum has problems with Freepers trying to infiltrate their site. What happens there is the Freepers and Idiots are so outnumbered that they soon leave. I just ban Smelly as soon as I find out who he is. Like I said, at Johnny Spray will read from a distance, whereas Smelly is a lying bag of mucous and shit.
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Post by socrates on Dec 10, 2006 23:24:52 GMT -5
I empathize with you and finally see your point about the stalking. Spray atleast adheres to the banning. Johnny may come across like this: But at least he isn't acting like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction"It's over when I say it's over" Just go away Smell. Swamp doesn't want you posting here. Stop trolling, go over to your buddies at Free Republic. Your son Joe Dirt is over there. Go on. Git movin.
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 11, 2006 0:21:43 GMT -5
Call me physic but I have a physical description of Johnny Spray that I would like to share with you all.
Read at your own risk.
Johnny Spray is small in stature, not more that 5' 3" tall, a slight little wisp of a character.
He weighs approximately 125 lbs. soaking wet.
He has thinning light reddish, brownish hair that is receding to the point that he is self conscious of it and tries hiding it with a comb over that makes it even more obvious.
He has a rather wedge "V" shaped face with a pointed nose and eye's that bulge from there sockets, his eyes are a light faded blue that seem to change their hue as he moves, like a chameleon (very alien like)
His skin is a pasty white and almost translucent in the sunlight, he appears rather anemic or perhaps he is just a nocturnal creature. ( Vampire or other form of bloodsucker)
His arms are long and thin, keeping with his general slight build, his hands are very feminine with long thin fingers, not a working man's hands at all, his are the hands of a do nothing keyboard commando.
His legs are thin and bowed a bit, he looks for all the world as though they have a hard time holding the rest of his puny frame upright under the strain.
Now, put all of this together with his nasty little case of (NPD) Narcissistic Personality Disorder and no doubt a touch of Napoleon Syndrome and that I believe is the perfect description of Johnny Spray.
If someone can get a recent photo of him, I'll wager a days pay that this is exactly what he looks like, a creepy little alien looking little guy that makes you wish he would slither away because he makes your skin crawl.
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Post by socrates on Dec 11, 2006 0:30:55 GMT -5
Hey, Smell just left a post at Megasprayer slandering Swampgas. Paid or not paid, either way, he is a creepy stalker troll. oops I pushed jr's button
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 11, 2006 0:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by altitudelou on Dec 11, 2006 0:50:56 GMT -5
Boy, that's a sling fest over there, is there any point in going head to head with an A-Hole like that?
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Post by socrates on Dec 11, 2006 1:12:12 GMT -5
Lou:
"Boy, that's a sling fest over there, is there any point in going head to head with an A-Hole like that?"
It'll be interesting to see how Swampgas responds. Chem11 must not be aware who Ed Smell/Smell is. I slammed him in one post. I just left another one referring to him in the third person. He is not worthy of my time. I have a kind of "Jeff JohnnySpray" attitude. I'll give you one chance, but no lying and no trolling allowed, or I am finished with you.
I think these clowns are upset that Megasprayer and Gastro have been able to compile a lot of good stuff. Too bad the trolls can't be content that DBS, Carnicom, and CTC are unmoderated jokes. But atleast somehow the truth has survived the CTC/Carnicom implosions.
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Post by socrates on Dec 11, 2006 1:16:09 GMT -5
Lou, to post photos, {img}http://www.wtf.jpg{/img} Johnny Spray?
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Post by halva on Dec 11, 2006 3:00:57 GMT -5
Hey, Smell just left a post at Megasprayer slandering Swampgas. Paid or not paid, either way, he is a creepy stalker troll. oops I pushed jr's buttonA question for Chem 11: when Rosalind Peterson refers to the multiple interrogations she had to go through to be admitted to Megasprayer, how is it that Smell walked in just like that?
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 11, 2006 8:35:21 GMT -5
I responded at Chem's chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=Fight&action=display&n=1&thread=1078830194&page=2I can't be more clear to this idiot. The more he writes, the more we look good, and the debunkers look like the obsolate fools they are. I am getting tired of hearing these two dopes names. Perhaps we should put a self-imposed ban of any more posts of Smell and Spray? To Smell and Spray. Perhaps you should pose as "Liberals" or "Progressives", and tout the benefits of Geo-Engineering? This is the new face of disinformation, not this "You Chemmie idiots"approach. Be sure we will be there, pointing out the hyposcrisy of the Lovelock-Brand approach.
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Post by halva on Dec 11, 2006 8:37:18 GMT -5
I hope that Chem 11 is looking at this thread and will answer the question I have asked.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 11, 2006 8:39:54 GMT -5
halva, where did you ask Chem that? Do you have a link, or was it a PM? or do you want me to ask him that?
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 11, 2006 9:02:03 GMT -5
I already contacted Chem.
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Post by BigBunny on Dec 11, 2006 9:32:14 GMT -5
Halva, you speak of Rosalind Peterson undergoing multiple interrogations before being admitted to Megasprayer. Would you care to elaborate?
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Post by Swamp Gas on Dec 11, 2006 9:46:32 GMT -5
Bunny, I don't what halva means, but Ed Smell is already there as Y-a-a-k and Yak. You know he is there is cause trouble. If you ban him, he will do the same thing he tries to do here, keep posting under as many banes under proxies as he can. And he has the nerve to say he wouln't know what to do with an IP address. He already is a suspect in the CTC hack of September 2005. Do what thou wilt.........
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