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Post by halva on Nov 20, 2006 23:08:27 GMT -5
Your poisoning the atmosphere here at Gastro so why don't you do something about it ? What would you like me to do? I want to keep reporting from Greece, just as I report on the US at the Greek forum.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 21, 2006 15:50:46 GMT -5
Halva / Wayne Hall wrote in response to,
"Your poisoning the atmosphere here at Gastro so why don't you do something about it" ___________________________________
What would you like me to do?
I want to keep reporting from Greece, just as I report on the US at the Greek forum. ________________________________________
Your suppose to be the most intelligent animal on the planet Wayne, figure it out !
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Post by socrates on Nov 21, 2006 16:21:16 GMT -5
I agree with you Lou. Halva is the most intelligent animal on the planet and should be able to figure this out. ;D HippieDude has cut right to the chase over at DBS when it comes to Wayne Hall's promoting of the Frankenstein geoengineering. "Isn't this shit called ACID RAIN?"
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 21, 2006 19:20:26 GMT -5
Hi Socrates,
Wow, I guess I've been missing out on quite a bit, I just saw this post at DBS from Megasprayer by Big Bunny.
From the "Wayne-Bash" at Megasprayer -
Big Bunny: "While I do respect the efforts of the Moderators both here and at Gastro, I've noted that this behaviour demonstrated by Hall is both disruptive and destructive. I have reached the conclusion that Hall works for the Opposition and is not to be trusted in any regard." ______________________________________________________
Well, what do you know, obviously I'm not alone in thinking along those same lines with regard to Wayne Hall.
I do not think that Wayne is a deliberate debunker but he is very disruptive and destructive to the Chemtrail's / spraying debate as anyone can see who has been following his postings here at Gastro recently.
I have told Wayne Hall that as long as he remains here at Gastro I will be replying to his post and to be sure, he is not going to like my reply's as long as he keeps up with his instigating to create conflict to advance his agenda / The Marketing Of Pollution, that's going to fly with me about as far as his Reynolds by proxy BS_ It ain't happening !
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Post by halva on Nov 21, 2006 22:30:36 GMT -5
You respond, but you don't tell me what you want me to do, any more than you could tell Reynolds what you wanted him to do.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Nov 21, 2006 22:35:26 GMT -5
halva,
Let me ask you this........Why do you think you are upsetting so many veteran Aerosol Mitigation people?
I am not taking sides per say, but there seems to be a general consensus.
I have known you for about 4 years now, and there is a definite shift in your approach.
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Post by halva on Nov 22, 2006 2:02:24 GMT -5
How would you characterize this shift?
Just so that I know what the accusation is so that I can make the most acceptable response.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Nov 22, 2006 9:33:39 GMT -5
You never were taking the side of polluters in any stretch of the imagination.
I could be wrong, but I hope you are not resigning to the fact they are still spraying and dirtying our planet.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 22, 2006 10:18:30 GMT -5
Halva / Wayne Hall wrote,
"You respond, but you don't tell me what you want me to do, any more than you could tell Reynolds what you wanted him to do." _____________________________________________________________
Wayne,
I or no one else can or should TELL YOU what you should do because your behavior is angering people, what are you, a three year old, do you need parenting ?
It's obvious that you are being disruptive at various forums as at Megasprayer where you got banned for it, so why can't you figure out that it's you who should modify your thinking / behavior and not those around you that your instigating the conflict with.
You act all wounded and get defensive when someone confronts you on a subject that you initiated to begin with or you act like you don't know what they are talking about or change the subject to avoid answering their questions, this is behavior reminiscent of that of Lord Reynolds.
So Wayne, what are people to think of you, if you don't recognize that you have an image problem going on because of your actions of late there isn't much that anyone can do about it except YOU, it's up to you to fix the problem, not us !
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Post by halva on Nov 22, 2006 13:49:36 GMT -5
You never were taking the side of polluters in any stretch of the imagination. I could be wrong, but I hope you are not resigning to the fact they are still spraying and dirtying our planet. The number one priority for me is to break the secrecy. Any manoeuvring I might do or try to do serves this purpose and this purpose only.
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Post by halva on Nov 22, 2006 13:51:57 GMT -5
Lou I am quite willing to make any concessions that are asked of me when it comes to tone, attitude, etc. But I don't intend to change the content of what I am trying to say and/or do.
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Post by altitudelou on Nov 22, 2006 16:50:09 GMT -5
Halva / Wayne Hall wrote,
"Lou I am quite willing to make any concessions that are asked of me when it comes to tone, attitude, etc. But I don't intend to change the content of what I am trying to say and/or do." _____________________________________________
Ha......, that's pathetic Wayne, while you state that your quite willing to make any concessions that are asked of you when it comes to tone, attitude, etc....You then, immediately qualify that statement by saying that you have no intention of changing the very thing that is angering so many people which goes right back to you being disruptive and destructive with regard to the pro-active Chemtrail sites that you visit.
If you continue along these lines in advancing your thoughts on "Pollution being good" by forcing it on people like some unwanted religious fanatic at the door I can't see how anyone is going to take you seriously, your actions of the past few months have made me wonder just who's side your on much like Big Bunny and Socrates, even Swampgas can see how you have changed and not for the better.
As I have already stated, no one should tell you what to do but perhaps you should step back and really self-examine your position and how you might put forward your theories without causing so much animosity from your writings which benefits no one, at least take the time to think about that.
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Post by halva on Nov 22, 2006 22:56:24 GMT -5
One element that doesn't make it particularly easier to remain restrained is the impression that deliberate misrepresentation is going on.
For example those famous remarks that were grabbed by Chem that I am advocating demonstrations in favour or air pollution. Those remarks were decontextualized.
What was the context? Think back to the time when there was a public confrontation between Schwarzenegger and Inhofer because Schwarzenegger's politics did not appear to be favourable enough to the oil companies. One of the punitive measures invoked by Inhofer was imposition of fines on Los Angeles for not meeting federal standards for particle pollution. That was the context of the facetious remark, or rather question, about staging demonstrations in favour of air pollution: which could also remind people, or inform people who have not yet heard, that there are scientists who are canvassing the VIRTUES of polluted air. Remind Inhofer of this, for a start.
Seizing these remarks out of context as Chem did was something I did not expect, because I have not grown accustomed to thinking him malicious, even when we disagree. Nor do I think him stupid. On the contrary, he is smart.
Does this make things clearer?
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Post by socrates on Nov 22, 2006 23:38:26 GMT -5
Nice try. Maybe this will make it clearer. posted by HippieDude: Isn't this shit called ACID RAIN? posted by Halva: Which shit? I didn't start this thread and I don't really know what its subject is. The name of this post at DBS is Wayne Hall and the Marketing of Air Pollution. Halva has been making many comments of late backing Chem11's contentions that Halva is marketing the air pollution. All these years he has flied under the radar, acting as the great fighter against the "debunkers". Some time back he called me neurotic for wondering about fifth column intruders into the chemtrail forums. He has clearly stated that the debunker such as a Reynolds is the chief problem. Wayne Hall and the Marketing of Air Pollution at Megasprayer is now up to page ten. Here are some quotes Halva has recently made that make things a tad clearer. First, here is a repost of some questions I had for Halva: *** Why debunk global dimming like debunkers debunk global warming or Reynolds does with chemtrails? *** Why even posit that anti-aviation people could be "baddies" while Crutzen and geoengineers could be the "goodies"? *** Why say that Deborah and Chem11 are fudging things up? Or why not just say it a few times and let it be? Otherwise, please clarify the point. Don't say it behind their backs. Get your argument in order and present it as clearly as possible. *** Why are debunkers the main problem? Why aren't believers who spread disinfo a problem? Why is it a sign of neurosis for one to think there is chemtrail disinfo? *** Why promote Deep Shield when the man was arguing for geoengineering? ?? Recent Halva Quotes: *** If the spraying were stopped, would this have more harmful than beneficial consequences? *** Proving that there is global warming going on should not be mixed up with the chemtrails/geoengineering issue. *** More pollution is good is not a theory. It is a practice. Are those who wish to defend this practice theoretically more or less likely to be honest about this fact? Or at least to tolerate honesty when they see it in others? That is a question. It has not yet been answered. *** As far as I can see, nobody but you and your friend Ed Smell want to debate the matter. Chemtrails vs contrails and anthropogenic vs "natural" climate change are both red herring debates to divert us from debating the appropriateness of geoengineering. *** I do not intend to discuss either chemtrails/contrails or climate change with you. The only relevant debate is the currently socially marginal debate over whether geoengineering is an appropriate way to deal with climate change. *** Perhaps you could answer that question the people in Northern Greece are asking: if the spraying stopped would it be better or worse?
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 0:06:24 GMT -5
Your poisoning the atmosphere here at Gastro so why don't you do something about it ? What would you like me to do? I want to keep reporting from Greece, just as I report on the US at the Greek forum. I don't even think you ARE in Greece, tbh..
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 0:10:56 GMT -5
Soctrates, you and I need to talk. Period..
The asshole that promoted the 'Deep Shield' theory admitted in his frustration he made up the entire story. You can find his confession on the Arainna board(now archived under threads HUNDREDS of pages long, not tens..).
Maybe halva will even be kind enough to tell you the bugger's name, cause he knows him well and I've since discrarded not only the crap he talks, but the person himself, even if his intentions were/are good.
A liar is still a Liar in my book, and he came clean about it as far back as a year ago..
You're quick as a whip, but there's pieces of the puzzle you're missing out on.
Insufficient data does not compute..
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Post by halva on Nov 23, 2006 4:30:58 GMT -5
I am only going to get involved in this argument if what is involved is being honestly misinformed. Check out: chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=Fight&action=display&n=1&thread=1097483256&page=1The thread goes on for four pages. David Stewart joins the discussion on page 3. And as for the remarks about me not being in Greece. This IS provocateur behaviour, whether or not you are really a provocateur, Arcadia. Look at the photographs of functions in Greece at the site www.enouranois.gr and then apologize. What the hell is going on with all this, anyway?
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 11:59:42 GMT -5
Halva, I'm not the only person who's had long-standing questions about you, so don't try and scape-goat me about it. As far as I'm concerned, this boards loaded with friends of mine and I don't rank you among them, so you can take that for whatever it's worth, ok?
I could care less whether or not you're in Greece or sitting in the fucking Black-Op Room113 of the frigging Pentagon, really.
Something about you isn't and never has been right; I just have the balls to say it out loud. You post good links, some that even impressed me, and I went to the fucking bottom of the Dungeon(thanks for the IPCC link on Mitigation; it's the only one I actually missed finding myself), but any idiot knows the best lies contain truth.
Happy Thanksgiving, halva; it's been awhile since we crossed paths. Don't give me a reason to take out my aggressions on you and we'll be fine, m'kay?
m'kay.
Cheers, D
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Post by BigBunny on Nov 23, 2006 12:00:39 GMT -5
Good to see you back ET. Unfortunately Mr Hall is situated in Greece although this is about the only part of Mr Hall's story that I can confirm. As for the rest of it I have said exactly what I mean at Mega so there is no need to repeat it here.
My only other observation is that the thread quoted in Mr Hall's latest post is a fine example of Mr Hall's feral behaviour. The fact that he lasted so long at Mega was because of the benevolence of the Moderators and nothing else.
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 12:08:39 GMT -5
I have neither the time nor the desire to waste on verifying if this link and post of his preceeds his confession on the Arianna board or not, but that's where I remember seeing it first. I think David Stewart *may have*made that shit up with good intentions, but you know what Road that leads to. The bottom line is this: NO FUCKING "CONFESSIONS" OR "LEAKS" CAN EVER BE INDEPENDANTLY VERIFIED WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURES, MEANING RANK, ID, PICTURES, AND VERIFIABLE IDENTIFICATION.I TATTOOED an Army guy with limited clearance who gave me significant information about what the shit actually is. Ask yourself why I never bothered sharing it with any of you? It's called Plausable Deniability. This is how they get Good People to do Bad Things. This guy tried to tell me that it was ok for the webstrands to land on my daughters face in the park, because as far as he knew, they were biologically inert. I repeat, "as far as he knew", GET IT? When you read about a 'leak', you're reading BULLSHIT.. Jesus Christ, has no one learned anything in all these years?
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 12:10:49 GMT -5
You too, Big Bunny. We don't agree on every theory, but you're a smart fucker, and you're in my list of Good Guys and always have been. Respect, D
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Post by socrates on Nov 23, 2006 13:41:55 GMT -5
Before I got to CTC, DBS, Carnicoms, Megasprayer, Gastro and even Jeff Wells' Rigorous Intuition to read up on these forums' takes on chemtrails, I WAS into reading at Rense and whatreallyhappened, prisonplanet, etc..
I just want to make it clear that I agree that Deep Shield was a hoax. I believe that Halva's insistence on the importance of this tabloid story says more about his own agenda than supplies any info on chemtrails.
Why would someone keep harping on Deep Shield? Well, if Deep Shield wasn't a hoax, then we need chemtrails, and we need them all the time.
The Deep Shield hoax serves two purposes: 1) It discredits chemtrail awareness by giving it a National Enquirer/Rense stigma. 2) It subliminally instills in people the belief that chemtrails are good for us.
What really cemented my apprehensions about Halva was when he argued that global dimming is a rubbish idea. I think he doesn't like it that recent revelations about global dimming show that even "good" pollution is no good.
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 15:38:18 GMT -5
Look at the photographs of functions in Greece at the site www.enouranois.gr and then apologize. The Devil's Dictionary's definition of "Apologize": APOLOGIZE, v.i. To lay the foundation for a future offence. You sure you want that from me, buddy?
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Nov 23, 2006 15:39:31 GMT -5
Btw, bigbunny, I've gotten pretty tight with Joe Hillshoist/Jules who sends his regards to the chem11 board.
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Post by halva on Nov 23, 2006 21:59:10 GMT -5
Halva, I'm not the only person who's had long-standing questions about you, so don't try and scape-goat me about it. As far as I'm concerned, this boards loaded with friends of mine and I don't rank you among them, so you can take that for whatever it's worth, ok? I could care less whether or not you're in Greece or sitting in the fucking Black-Op Room113 of the frigging Pentagon, really. Something about you isn't and never has been right; I just have the balls to say it out loud. You post good links, some that even impressed me, and I went to the fucking bottom of the Dungeon(thanks for the IPCC link on Mitigation; it's the only one I actually missed finding myself), but any idiot knows the best lies contain truth. Happy Thanksgiving, halva; it's been awhile since we crossed paths. Don't give me a reason to take out my aggressions on you and we'll be fine, m'kay? m'kay. Cheers, D In general terms I accept the olive branch at the end, if that's what it is. But as far as what you said earlier is concerned, about "something about you not being right" and you having the balls to say so: the point is not to have the balls to say so but to have the brains to find out what it is that is "not right". Then you might understand yourself better too. I could elaborate on that, but as you are offering an olive branch, as with the discussion that Thetaloops started and did not continue, I won't go on unless someone wants me to.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Nov 23, 2006 22:07:42 GMT -5
Please link to the thread that Theta started halva
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Post by halva on Nov 23, 2006 22:46:26 GMT -5
I just want to make it clear that I agree that Deep Shield was a hoax. I believe that Halva's insistence on the importance of this tabloid story says more about his own agenda than supplies any info on chemtrails. Socrates, it is you who keep bringing up Deep Shield. I have moved on and my impression is that D. Stewart has also moved on. Nothing can be done with the "Deep Shield" story. If you remember in Stewart's afterword to the unpublished English translation of the Haderer book he admitted that he is not sure that "Deep Shield" was truthful in everything he said. Nevertheless, if you studied all the available evidence with an open mind I think your view could be as follows: There was a person who worked at Lawrence Livermore who told David Stewart more or less the things reported and later committed suicide. But it doesn't matter. Which is presumably why David Stewart does not show much sign of being interested in continuing the discussion about "Deep Shield" in forums like this. The reason that Deep Shield keeps coming up is that you want to use it to illustrate some theory of your own. If you stopped doing that, Deep Shield would be forgotten. What can be done to get you to read more accurately? In fact I went to the trouble of doing Greek subtitles to the entirety of Sington's first programme on Global Dimming and screening it publicly in Athens. The programme made a deep, but not lasting, impression, and there were some even on the night of the screening who expressed scepticism about Sington's good-old-fashioned-religion editorial style. We are doomed, but all hope is not lost if you make your decision for us. I have childhood memories of similar editorializing from Billy Graham. This is patronization of the public. And it is the other side of the coin of not telling the truth about geoengineering. There would be no need to hype it all up if one presented the whole story. I posted extracts from correspondence with nearly all the scientists who are shown in Sington's programme and almost all of them expressed reservations about the programme's editorial line. And Gavin Schwarz at Real Climate did the same, demolishing Sington's credibility among a section of the scientific public. Sington was also contacted by Reynolds and criticized for the same reasons, as well as for aiding and abetting "conspiracy theorists. Reynolds leaked the correspondence onto the Internet, stabbing Sington in the back for his trust. Reynolds' leak indicated that large numbers of "chemmies" had contacted Sington trying to get him to agree that "global dimming" had something to do with "chemtrails". Sington however made it clear to Reynolds that he was doing nothing to encourage loonies of that kind. You are not advancing our cause, Socrates, if you think and proclaim that Sington's politics are better than mine. Might I just say that I am getting tired of going over the same ground all the time: David Stewart, Deep Shield, David Sington. It looks as if new developments are occurring. Why not focus on them? The line you are harping on: that halva is promoting the "marketing of pollution" is just a load of manure. Can't you find another subject around which to centre your activity?
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Post by halva on Nov 23, 2006 22:59:28 GMT -5
Please link to the thread that Theta started halva gastronamus.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=aerosol&action=display&thread=1160627260&page=8Posting 109 It was Swedishoo, not Thetaloops. I was planning to check up after doing the posting and then coming back to edit if I had got the name wrong. You were very quick off the mark, Swampgas, showing that I have to be more careful. I don't know either Swedishoo or Thetaloops but I know that is not an excuse.
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Post by halva on Nov 23, 2006 23:03:36 GMT -5
Look at the photographs of functions in Greece at the site www.enouranois.gr and then apologize. The Devil's Dictionary's definition of "Apologize": APOLOGIZE, v.i. To lay the foundation for a future offence. You sure you want that from me, buddy? I was going to make a remark about using dictionaries rather than relating to what people mean when they use words, but having made my mistake with Thetaloops/Swedishoo I won't. No. I don't want you to apologize. I just want you to be careful about factual accuracy, as I myself promise to be after making the above mistake with names.
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Post by BigBunny on Nov 23, 2006 23:05:35 GMT -5
ET its good to see that the missing Moderators of Mega are beginning to reappear. We were worried that a black hole had swallowed one or more of them. Please pass on our warmest regards to the big fella - we await his return.
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