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Post by socrates on Jan 21, 2007 17:38:21 GMT -5
Being nice is a two-way street, as is playing fair in dialogue.
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Post by CDsNuTz on Jan 22, 2007 22:53:47 GMT -5
First off Sup Arcadia, Long time man.I haven't been gone just quite,CTC was a big burn out for me personally.I only speak out when things really start to erk me. Hope your family is well, hope you're well... Dont be such a stranger,Not like i post much either but ya know..PEACE BRO Swamp, i wasn't apologizing, Just kinda wondering why Halvas gone Penrod on us....PEACE BRO ...If anyone is the instigator in this place it is certainly you. What have you actually contributed to this forum besides running people off?.......Anything?? Anything at all? I didn't run anyone off. That is how some people want this to be seen. As regards to you saying I have contributed nothing, that is a ludicrous statement. It says more about you than myself. Soc i was wrong, you have contributed much to this forum. To bad half of it was spent callin out "TINFOIL" or keeping the fight with Halva going, Which makes the important half worthless...Also by keeping the fight going w/ Halva you HAVE had a hand in running people off. So I'd say we know more then enough about you!!
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Post by halva on Jan 22, 2007 23:11:25 GMT -5
Swamp, i wasn't apologizing, Just kinda wondering why Halvas gone Penrod on us....PEACE BRO CDsNuts can you specify what it is you don't like? So far I've gathered that you didn't like my crack about Socrates posting off topic when Swamp, in your view, was on my side and in reconciliation mode. How have I 'gone Penrod'?
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Post by CDsNuTz on Jan 22, 2007 23:36:47 GMT -5
Swamp, i wasn't apologizing, Just kinda wondering why Halvas gone Penrod on us....PEACE BRO CDsNuts can you specify what it is you don't like? So far I've gathered that you didn't like my crack about Socrates posting off topic when Swamp, in your view, was on my side and in reconciliation mode. How have I 'gone Penrod'? WHat i don't like??Huh where do i start, First of all i felt sorry for you all alone over at DBS doing battle with that douche Johnnyspray so i figured I'd throw you a bone and tell you about a place where Johnnyspray is not welcomed at all, HERE. I had always liked your posts at CTC so i figured what the hell.. Then when you finally do make it here most of the crap from DBS followed you...WTF??? I tell of a place without Johnnyspray but you bring him indirectly..That was your major downfall in this place.. Then this thing with Soc, Who the hell is the bigger man here. Neither obviously as one can't let what the other one say go... Then we come to your posts as of late...I can't deny much of what you've been posting is off topic and a little nutty....Kind of PENRODISH if you will.
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Post by CDsNuTz on Jan 23, 2007 0:20:57 GMT -5
See what i mean, Freakin nutty I tell ya... We should start calling him "Halva Penrod".... Couldn't possibly just let it go could ya Halva?? www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=19113&page=174quote Halva: Quote: Originally Posted by foot_soldier No need to get concerned, halva. I'm not going to be doing much posting anymore. Just the occasional update for informational purposes. Footsoldier, can you please post this at my forum also, where you are already enrolled.. Given that I have been excluded from Megasprayer and given that, as you can see, some of the same issues that I want to discuss with you have impelled also the childish Socrates to throw a tantrum and withdraw from Gastronamus, I would appreciate it if you could open yourself to a no-holds-barred discussion, away from debunker interference. Give me some reward for having defended your honour at Gastronamus against a silly and unthinking attack, from people purportedly on "our side".
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Post by CDsNuTz on Jan 23, 2007 0:32:04 GMT -5
And to Swamp I apologize as I should have kept this in the private thread where it was more appropriate. Now it's all private so sorry if it was because of my outburst. I just couldn't tolerate this crap any longer, It was really starting to muck up the reading...
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Post by halva on Jan 23, 2007 1:06:10 GMT -5
CDNutz do you have any ideas on the issue that is making both Socrates and me ambivalent about Footsoldier/Deborah?
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Post by halva on Jan 23, 2007 1:07:25 GMT -5
Perhaps "ambivalent" is the wrong word to describe Socrates' attitude.
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Post by CDsNuTz on Jan 23, 2007 1:13:32 GMT -5
HUH?? Your ambivalent about her yet you defend here honour...This is the kind of crazy shit I'm talkin about...Have you gone off your rocker???
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Post by halva on Jan 23, 2007 4:07:43 GMT -5
HUH?? Your ambivalent about her yet you defend here honour...This is the kind of crazy shit I'm talkin about...Have you gone off your rocker??? I'm ambivalent about her because I don't know whether I or she is the one who doesn't understand. I defend her honour because I think it is under the pressure of debunker harassment that she has arrived at her present position, having adopted much simpler positions in the past. In other words I don't think she is trying to fool us. But there may be an element of confusion in her position and this is why she is always defensive against debunkers and cannot go onto the offence. On the other hand I may be the one who is insufficiently informed. What is one to do? I don't think the Socrates approach is effective.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 23, 2007 11:19:20 GMT -5
CDs and halva. There is no need to fight.
I think that halva, you have been fighting these CLowns for so long that it is wearing you down.
Footsoldier/Deborah the same thing. The debunkers are being paid or they are disabled stay at homes.
How can we compete on their level?
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Post by et in Arcadia ego on Jan 27, 2007 11:14:49 GMT -5
The debunkers are being paid or they are disabled stay at homes. How can we compete on their level? That or they're Illuminati chat-bots. maybe we can make our own chatbots and turn em loose on them.. ;D
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Post by halva on Feb 9, 2007 23:05:14 GMT -5
www.iene.gr/en/events.shtmlOn Thursday 8th February three supporters of the Enouranois website participated in the One Day Conference on "Climate Change and Strategies for Meeting the Challenge" held at the Gennadios Library in Athens, Greece and organized by the Institute of Engergy for South-East Europe. The conference organizers expressed disappointment at the relatively lukewarm response of politicians to participation in the conference, particularly in the light of the intense media projection of the latest IPCC report. EU Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas was not able to participate but a video was projected containing a message of support from him to the conference. During Commissioner Dimas' videoed message an Enouranois supporter affixed a placard with the question: "Geoengineering: Legalization or Prohibition?" to the stage. The organizers expressed their disapproval of this action, asking why permission had not been sought to do this, but the placard was allowed to stay in place throughout the conference, and Enouranois supporter Costas Landos made an intervention towards the end of the conference, on the subject of geoengineering, in response to the speaker from Greenpeace. All in all the presence of the Enouranois supporters at the conference and in the official list of participants, the placard and the intervention, represented a step towards achieving rational discussion of geoengineering proposals (and activities) within the climate change movement. This isn't a very good photograph, but it shows the placard at the front of the stage, photographed during one of the breaks. The writing on the placard in Greek says: "Geoengineering - Legalization or Prohibition?"
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Post by halva on Feb 21, 2007 11:59:23 GMT -5
From the local newspaper of Aigina “Nea Epochi” (New Age) Friday 16th February 2007.
"Mourtzis-Bush: Round one to the mayor" by Costas Ioannou
It is not necessary to be a scientist to understand that the planet is frying. And this is not a new discovery. The debate by now has to do with the way humanity is called upon to react to this situation. The basic if not the only cause is atmospheric pollution and this is what the controversy is all about because atmospheric pollution means economic vested interests. This is made abundantly clear by the stance of Bush, who refuses to commit himself to any reductions, in this way paying off the debts he incurred pre-electorally.
Only recently Bush acknowledged the existence of the problem, but not its extent. According to a certain radio station he even spoke of solutions that are being sought from the science of ‘geoengineering’. These solutions include the launching of huge mirrors to reflect part of the solar radiation back into space, and the spraying of the upper levels of the atmosphere with particles of sulphur which will have the same anticipated effect: the reduction in global temperatures.
Precisely this practice is already under implementation (though it is not known to what extent and over how large an area) and is called ‘chemtrails’ or aerial spraying with chemicals. Since as early as 2003 Aigina has been a world pioneer in action against this activity.
Observations have been recorded from all over the world of this spraying, which is recognizable from the ground as it presents certain specific characteristics. These characteristics have been noted in the case of aircraft flying over Aigina. The permanent resident of Aigina Wayne Hall was familiar with the reports and correspondingly active. As a result of an interview he gave to the Sunday Ethnos newspaper, the municipal councilor Nektarios Koukoulis came into contact with the then mayor Mourtzis and finally also persuaded the Council to take a decision in favour of legal action against whoever was responsible. The name of Aigina reached as far as Vienna, but the case did not continue because the mayor dropped the lawsuit on advice from his legal services. But the subject did not cease being discussed and indeed recently reached the Greek Parliament, in a question from the parliamentarian Xirotiri.
Finally, as it turns out today, not only does the problem exist but an attempt is under way to instill the notion in the mind of the world that covering up the problem is more feasible and desirable than solving it. Solving it would involve some discomfort for the companies that pollute and naturally also a cost in terms of adjustment to new environmentally-friendly technologies.
And so it is that the story of the aerial spraying which is just beginning at the global level, here in Aigina is simply…..continuing. The new mayor does not appear to be indifferent. Indeed the word is that the mayor has assigned Mr. Grigoris Maltezos the task of compiling further data on the spraying so that it can be discussed by the Council.
Extract from the book ‘Chemtrails’ by Christian Haderer (Vienna, 2005).[/b]
Anyone who becomes involved with chemtrails soon discovers that in German-speaking countries too there is hardly anything published in print that gets beyond the retailing of conspiracy theories. Most relevant publications concern themselves with chemtrails as a weapon for mass destruction of humanity. The first impression, that the phenomenon is an idea in the heads of some of our more paranoid fellow-citizens, is thus understandable. Nevertheless there is material and other evidence that speaks so clearly for the real existence of chemtrails that one is forced to wonder why there is so little wondering. Especially when facts are on record that lend the chemtrail evidence additional weight. For example in June 2003 the municipal council of Aigina in Greece lodged a complaint ‘against unknown parties’ spraying from aircraft chemical substances harmful to health such as aluminium particles.
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Post by halva on May 12, 2007 12:32:58 GMT -5
A film made on 18th March 2007 on the occasion of the screening in Aigina, Greece, of the Sofia Smallstorm 9/11 video, describing the Aigina Municipal Council's 2003 chemtrails initiative and its continuation into the present. With interviews. www.enouranois.gr/video/monoagglikoteliko.wmv
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Post by halva on May 18, 2007 10:48:29 GMT -5
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Post by Swamp Gas on May 18, 2007 16:41:52 GMT -5
How do the Synaspismos do in elections?
The one thing I always liked about European politics are the multiple parties. The USA is simply one party with the illusion of two or best three.
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Post by halva on May 21, 2007 21:36:55 GMT -5
How do the Synaspismos do in elections? The one thing I always liked about European politics are the multiple parties. The USA is simply one party with the illusion of two or best three. The Synaspismos take around four to five percent of the vote. More significant than the number of votes they get, though, is their orientation towards (in fact sponsorship of) the "social forum" movement and the orientation towards assigning a constitutional role to NGOs.
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Post by halva on May 21, 2007 21:40:02 GMT -5
22nd November 2006
From the Parliamentarian of the Synaspismos A. Xirotiri Into the parliament….the white trails in the skies of Larissa
by Dimitris Vallas
The subject has finally made it into parliament - the subject being the mysterious white trails from aircraft which appear at regular intervals in the sky over Larissa. With her point of departure an article in the Sunday “Eleftherotypia” newspaper the parliamentarian of Thessaloniki 2nd district Asimina Xirotiri-Aikaterinari submitted a question to the Hellenic Parliament. However, apart from scenarios of programmes for dealing with the greenhouse phenomenon with spraying of metal oxides, the parliamentarian of the Synaspismos also posed questions about the control of the ionosphere, linking it to the HAARP system. This is a scenario according to which continual spraying with aluminium oxide would increase the conductivity of the atmosphere, assisting HAARP, which many consider a “superweapon”, given that apart from affecting telecommunications it can also influence climatic conditions in many areas of the planet. These trails continue to be a cause of concern to the people of Larissa, as no official answer has been forthcoming and already the spraying (chemtrails) has been the subject of widespread discussion on the Internet, having been observed in many countries. An impression has been made by reports on the Internet from inhabitants of a town in Canada whose inhabitants following similar spraying suffered from severe headaches, joint pains, dizziness, fatigue, sudden loss of memory and symptoms of exhaustion. More or less, in other words, as if they had come down with flu, but without developing a fever.
The question in the parliament
Specifically, addressing the ministers of the Environment, Physical Planning and Public Works, Agriculture Development and Foodstuffs and Transport, Mrs. Xirotiri asked for an answer concerning the reason for the white trails in the skies over Larissa. “In photographs of the horizon in the region of Larissa, taken in 2004 but also more recently (8th and 9th September 2006) there are obvious lines which resemble the familiar condensation trails, that is to say the lines left behind by jet-propelled passenger aircraft. But this explanation does not appear to apply given that in a normal condensation the cloud that is created does not remain in the air but is normally dispersed, whereas in this case the white lines become denser and spread out all over the sky, initially forming various patterns and ending up as a light covering of cloud which remains in the sky for many hours. The question accordingly arises of whether these trails are caused by aircraft of the Meteorological Service carrying out measurements related to the weather, whether they are part of a programme of protection against hail, whether they are part of a programme with aluminium and barium oxides in clusters of polymers (a programme for dealing with the greenhouse phenomenon) or whether they are part of a programme for studying the characteristics and the behaviour of the ionosphere to strengthen telecommunications and monitoring systems for civilian and military purposes, known as HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program). Because it is expedient that we, and particularly the residents of the area, should know the real reasons for this phenomenon, the ministers are asked:
"What is the programme of which these flights are a part and are there are dangers involved for residents or for the environment?”
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Post by Swamp Gas on May 21, 2007 23:18:21 GMT -5
This is excellent news halva. Sadly, we have two corporate parties in the USA that have nothing to do with health and social reform.
One good thing happened today. i was walking in Manhattan and three Greenpeace Officials asked me if I wanted to join. I said I do, but why is Greenpeace stonewalling on Aerosol Mitigation. They had not heard of it, but were very interested. I gave them links and are going to bring it up at their next meeting. It may be small, but it is something.
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Post by halva on May 21, 2007 23:54:43 GMT -5
Rank and file members of Greenpeace in Greece have also shown interest in our site. And the head of Greenpeace is willing to dialogue, and has shared platforms with us. But he does, as you say, stonewall on the subject.
My tentative explanation for the Greenpeace attitude is that the "sceptics" have the upper hand politically. They are more powerful and call the shots. The geoengineering programs are mostly illegal. This means that they provide opportunities for "sceptics" and anyone else interested to blackmail anyone and everyone associated with them. As a result the aerosol spraying, instead of being OUR most potent weapon: undeniable evidence of the terrible situation of our planet (if "chemtrails" are a "solution" who can deny there is a problem?) are a weapon in the armoury of our opponents.
This is an explanation (as I say, tentative) for the Greenpeace stance. I prefer it to the explanation of many of our friends that Greenpeace are just a lot of soldout assholes.
In general I agree with you on the subject of global warming, Al Gore, etc. etc. I tried to start a relevant dialogue at Megasprayer but it is getting me into their bad books again.
Perhaps here at Gastronamus is the place to conduct it.
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Post by halva on May 21, 2007 23:58:46 GMT -5
chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=Discussion&action=display&n=1&thread=1162278611&page=15#1179724599 Recently I have been thinking about a new approach to our subject, an approach that might also offer an alternative to polarizing rhetoric for and against "the American way of life", which the rest of the world perhaps now experiences (in the guise of 'liberal democracy') as in itself an instrument of imperial rule. On business over the weekend in the central Greek city of Larissa I managed to locate the people who had brought the parliamentarian Asimina Xirotiri to put her question in the Greek parliament on chemtrails over Larissa. One of these people had been giving a friendly "warning off" the chemtrails subject by a Greek military man, but this had acted to increase his determination to pursue the issue rather than lay off. The people in Larissa who have got involved with the chemtrails issue are mostly supporters of Xirotiri's Synaspismos party. As such they are wary of being associated with "conspiracy theorising" of the kind that wins votes for LAOS, the rising "far-right" populist party of Georgios Karatzaferis. They joke about it. Given that right-wing populists tend to be supporters of classical nineteenth century "laissez faire" liberal economic theory it came to me that focusing on this aspect of the problem could well be a useful orientation to adopt. Bear in mind that Rosalind Peterson has also embarked on collaboration now with an American right-wing populist, Devvy Kidd. Laissez faire economic theory sets a priority on rendering impossible state activity that does anything other than underwrite private contracts between individuals. It is the economic and political system that scientists such as Crutzen refer to when citing the political factors that make it impossible for any approach to climate change other than the "geoengineering" approach to gain the political support it would need to be successful. Perhaps what is needed now is a "winning hearts and minds" operation on the part of the political milieu represented in Greece by the Synaspismos so as to get the message across to leading chemtrails activists that alliances with supporters of classical nineteenth-century laissez faire economics are a sure way of perpetuating today's political deadlock and reproducing the conditions that spawn the "geoengineering" pseudo-solution. It would be better for this operation to be carried out at a more sophisticated and less demagogic level, focusing on economic theory rather than going for the "below-the-belt" subjects of racism and migration.
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Post by chickenlittle on May 22, 2007 4:56:06 GMT -5
Hi all,you know my husband made an obvious and yet sad point to me yesterday,the USA will probably always deny these aerosol mitigation and when we press too hard,they will just put these under national security or patriot act,war work.You know for our own protection,they would act as if they are doing us a favor,just like they always have. Then who can question them?.It reminds of the line in the movie Independence Day"who funds these projects?,where do you get the money?"The president asks at Roswell,and the old citizen man says"come on, you don't think they really pay 200.00 for a hammer or 80.00 for a toilet seat.do ya?" And this is it,Americans know or leaders of this country actually have a list of monies being spent in this way,but how do you question them on it?How do you make them stop,and show us a receipt?You can't and none of us do. Sad but true that they can do soooo much dirty work,blatantly before our eyes and there is nothing we can really do about it. Very upsetting thought,but I still want to be a monkey wrench in their machine as much as possible. chicky
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Post by halva on May 22, 2007 5:41:32 GMT -5
Jerry Smith made the point in his book Weather Warfare that weather modfication projects were brought under the national security umbrella after the relevant UN Resolution following the Vietnam War.
I have the impression though that there are possibilities for making some progress with politicians both inside and outside parliaments in Europe, and this will surely - if we get them to draw on the expertise of Americans - help to move us forward both in our countries and in yours.
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Post by Swamp Gas on May 22, 2007 6:23:11 GMT -5
Perhaps here at Gastronamus is the place to conduct it. Megasprayer and CTC are psy-ps, whether consciously or not. Chem11 has illusions of grandeur or is being paid. CTC is a haven for trolls, and Ed Smell's 24 personalities. Debate Both Sides has the usual Right Wing Crackpots, but also the thoroughly insane Boom Boom Boomerchick. The common point is this.....Both CTC and Megasprayer allow Ed Smell in and do nothing about it. It's one thing him coming here and posing as Socrates, or the other people, but on these sites he comes in as himself.
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