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Post by socrates on Sept 21, 2006 22:26:08 GMT -5
What could Crutzen possibly have to offer? ...Because Crutzen is "respectable" it becomes difficult for respectable institutions to refuse to have him as a speaker, even if what he is proposing is shocking, unacceptable and insane. That could make problems for them... ******Socrates responds: If what he is proposing is shocking, unacceptable, and insane, he definitely needs to be isolated as a dingbat who needs stifling. Are you saying he could serve "our" purposes by taking a prominent position in deciding global warming mitigation strategies, then he talks his nonsense, and then aha, bye bye chemtrails???***** ***** Socrates responds: Uhm, I thought the whole thing "we" got from the RealClimate forum was that Crutzen's ideas are bogus. Uhm, I thought we were happy with ourselves just to get the idea flowing that the dumbass ideas might already be off the ground with heavy aerosol mitigation occurring since around 1997. ***** **** Socrates responds: I wanted to hear your defense in your own words. Chem11 accused you of being a disinfo hack. I merely stated that such a thing is impossible to prove, only to theorize about. He slammed you. I just wanted to hear your side which still doesn't make sense to me. The only Dave Stewart I know was a pitcher for the Oakland A's. If we were face-to-face, and I was assured you were peaceful, I wouldn't be afraid to say anything to you. _________________________ "That's gotta be just about the stupidest thing I ever heard" ----- Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver
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Post by socrates on Sept 21, 2006 22:43:58 GMT -5
Greenman, The answer that we all know to their question on will the poisons stall global warming?? We all know the answer is NO DUMBASSES!!! take it from us right?I mean it's not as though they haven't been trying already for what?some odd 10 yrs probably,man the media are such asswipes. I personally had not seen this yet if it has been posted here already,quite interesting that it is getting let out of the bag now,perhaps the will do a woopsy on gee to bad it didn't work,but oh well, it cut the population down. Bastards!!!! chicky I think it is easy to get paranoid and think they are trying to depopulate us. Yet as Lou points out, the crap falls on everyone. It makes more sense that there is some kind of aerosol mitigation program going on. I personally think it works. I have seen many cold summers in Boston. Sure we had that bad heat wave like most everyone else, but we also had about three straight weeks of rain, and it's getting chillier lately. Some places have seen some frost. Even just going by the contrails, those created during the day do create a shield and block the sun's rays. Those at night trap the day's heat in. I think because aerosol mitigation is covert and unproven, they are tinkering and experimenting. I have this funny feeling they can shield the heat in too. Maybe they figured if the planet heated up a bit more, it would be easier to present the Crutzen and now Wigley mad scientist shite. I think you're on to something Chicky, how "they" have only recently let it out of the bag that this sulfate aerosol shield program is being seriously considered.
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Post by halva on Sept 21, 2006 23:24:54 GMT -5
I see that in answering a charge from Chem at Megasprayer I deleted my post 145 by mistake. This is what is now there in place of post 145. Chem has picked me up on this so that I was forced to check back in the files. What happened was that Chem offered to send my article, which he liked, to a number of sites. I accepted his offer. Shortly afterwards Chem announced that the article had been published by Rense. I had not noticed this, because I do not very much read Rense and I had not sent the article to Rense. I see now that Rense had picked up the article from Holmestead, which in turn had taken in from Spectrezine. My memory had compressed these two events: that Chem had offered to send my article to various sites and had then announced its publication by Rense, as Chem having sent the article to Rense. I remembered that I had never sent it myself. So I plead guilty to inaccuracy. My hope is that this will not lead to me being branded a liar at Megasprayer, as David Stewart has been, with similar or less justification. I have put up relevant links in the Fight Club posting at Megasprayer.
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Post by socrates on Sept 22, 2006 12:01:19 GMT -5
When I said I think the geo-engineering works, I meant it in a most cynical way. Obviously long-term it does not work. As Chem11 points out, you can't fix the atmosphere by adding pollutants to it. As Big Bunny points out, greed is good continues to be the standard operational procedure. So let's see, say in the winter "they" decide to melt the snow so not to lose money over business disruptions. "They" then spray us during the night trapping in the sun's rays and presto, the roads are cleared quick and it's business as usual.
Suppose "they" want to introduce "geo-engineering" to the masses. "They" then leave the mode of trying to "cool the planet". "They" figure we will spray at night, the earth will warm up even more, the hideous lines in the sky won't be as obvious, and then "they" figure now we bring in Crutzen and Wigley with their fancy science degrees and positions of "prominence".
This is what my gut is telling me. Unfortunately for "them", there are sane scientists and critics out there like Hansen, Gavin Schmidt, Monbiot, and apparently many more who see through the disinformation tactics of the Dr. Frankenstein advocates.
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Post by halva on Sept 22, 2006 14:01:10 GMT -5
From Rory Winter: chimesofreedom.blogspot.com/2006/09/wake-up-and-smell-coffee-while.htmlWhile listening to the News I was in my kitchen, preparing supper. When I saw Abu Izzadeen shouting at Reid my initial feelings were those of excitement that somebody was having a go at the thug who himself was looking dazed and bemused by the sudden attack. Then I began to feel uncomfortable, even embarrassed. Clearly, Reid and the media were loving it and doing everything to show up Izzadeen as an "extremist" and a dangerous clown. Why was I feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed, I asked myself? It was then I realised why: if I had been in Izzadeen's place I would have probably reacted to Reid in just the same way through pent-up anger, frustration and contempt for a cowardly, opportunist, corrupt politician who, bereft of any moral claim, has stooped to the lowest levels of tribal bigotry to score his points. To me, Abu Izzadeen's outburst symbolises the collective anger of an entire society of the politically marginalised which Reid and his Nu Labour cronies have helped to create in a Britain divided between haves and have-nots. An entire society! Not only of blacks and Muslims but of all races religions and colours who are being trodden underfoot by the Big Brother jackboots that the thug Reid, his cronies and the Mainstream Media represent. Instead of playing their game and inanely nodding our own heads, saying, "Oh yes, that Izzadeen chap. He's definitely an extremist. See how he shouts in a disaffected, London Carribbean accent. Look at his clothes! He's black and dangerous!" Oh no, we can't tolerate the likes of him in Britain!, instead of allowing ourselves to be duped so easily by the system ... how about seeing what's really going on? About who's really the threat to our freedoms, who's removing our freedoms in a raft of legislation turning our country into a prison camp for the new world odour? Where are the real killers, the mass murderers hiding in their Green Zones, protected by their thuggish bodyguards, secret services and and all-compliant media? How about standing up for our freedoms, stepping out of the shoes of the marginalised victim and taking a page out of Britain's past, its tradition of radical dissent and old-time socialism? Of course they'll call us extremists. They always do when their stinking, rotten system is threatened. Soon they'll call us terrorists as well for the legislation which while today is being used against non-whites will soon be turned on the entire population. Make no mistake, that is the nature of the prison-camp they are creating in this heavily-surveilled colony of Washington's Evil Empire. We should be supporting Britons who have the courage to speak out at the right time and in the right place. We should see them as modern British dissenters, not "extremists". As Izzadeen himself said, we should wake up and smell the coffee!
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Post by socrates on Sept 22, 2006 17:40:38 GMT -5
From Rory Winter: chimesofreedom.blogspot.com/2006/09/wake-up-and-smell-coffee-while.htmlWhile listening to the News I was in my kitchen, preparing supper. When I saw Abu Izzadeen shouting at Reid my initial feelings were those of excitement that somebody was having a go at the thug who himself was looking dazed and bemused by the sudden attack. Then I began to feel uncomfortable, even embarrassed. Clearly, Reid and the media were loving it and doing everything to show up Izzadeen as an "extremist" and a dangerous clown. Why was I feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed, I asked myself? It was then I realised why: if I had been in Izzadeen's place I would have probably reacted to Reid in just the same way through pent-up anger, frustration and contempt for a cowardly, opportunist, corrupt politician who, bereft of any moral claim, has stooped to the lowest levels of tribal bigotry to score his points. To me, Abu Izzadeen's outburst symbolises the collective anger of an entire society of the politically marginalised which Reid and his Nu Labour cronies have helped to create in a Britain divided between haves and have-nots. An entire society! Not only of blacks and Muslims but of all races religions and colours who are being trodden underfoot by the Big Brother jackboots that the thug Reid, his cronies and the Mainstream Media represent. Instead of playing their game and inanely nodding our own heads, saying, "Oh yes, that Izzadeen chap. He's definitely an extremist. See how he shouts in a disaffected, London Carribbean accent. Look at his clothes! He's black and dangerous!" Oh no, we can't tolerate the likes of him in Britain!, instead of allowing ourselves to be duped so easily by the system ... how about seeing what's really going on? About who's really the threat to our freedoms, who's removing our freedoms in a raft of legislation turning our country into a prison camp for the new world odour? Where are the real killers, the mass murderers hiding in their Green Zones, protected by their thuggish bodyguards, secret services and and all-compliant media? How about standing up for our freedoms, stepping out of the shoes of the marginalised victim and taking a page out of Britain's past, its tradition of radical dissent and old-time socialism? Of course they'll call us extremists. They always do when their stinking, rotten system is threatened. Soon they'll call us terrorists as well for the legislation which while today is being used against non-whites will soon be turned on the entire population. Make no mistake, that is the nature of the prison-camp they are creating in this heavily-surveilled colony of Washington's Evil Empire. We should be supporting Britons who have the courage to speak out at the right time and in the right place. We should see them as modern British dissenters, not "extremists". As Izzadeen himself said, we should wake up and smell the coffee! What does this have to do with the thread topic? I don't hate you, and I'm pretty much done with commenting on Wayne Hall and the Marketing of Pollution. I have noticed that you are back to interacting with Reynolds at Debate both Sides. Yawn. Oh well. I'm done with this person Swampgas, sorry things got ugly. I just don't trust this character anymore. Halva, I will now show you what a true ignore-listing means.
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Post by halva on Sept 22, 2006 21:12:05 GMT -5
It was the arguments here and at Megasprayer that got Reynolds into action again at Debate Both Sides.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 23, 2006 12:24:30 GMT -5
And just who was it that started the arguments, who has a way of baiting those into arguments, Hmmmmmm, Wayne !
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Post by halva on Sept 23, 2006 13:59:27 GMT -5
With the exception of the shot about American English, for which I must take responsibility, it was Socrates.
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Post by socrates on Sept 23, 2006 14:21:05 GMT -5
And just who was it that started the arguments... The reason why I will no longer directly interact with Halva is because he continues to avoid answering the most important questions I have asked. It is one thing to disagree. There is nothing wrong with disagreement. Yet, when someone avoids answering direct questions, but instead tries to change topics and supply spam and act as if nothing has happened, that is where I say stop, this is over, I will no longer feed this person's ego. It is one thing to slam debunkers and trolls. Yet, when someone who isn't a debunker starts to accuse the environmentalists of being bad guys and the Crutzen crowd as being sincere, this is as insidious as the internet gets. In a way I am glad this has happened. It all started because someone had to talk badly about others from a different forum on this forum. I gave this character every opportunity to explain himself. He hasn't. Now even if he does, it is too late as regards to myself. To me if he tries to explain this, it will look like damage control. And now we get the it's Megasprayer and Socrates' fault that Reynolds is back? This is looking more and more like a manufactured debate between Jay and Halva. Debate both sides? How 'bout Debate Both Sides is a joke of a forum. Reynolds is clearly a disinfo agent. It doesn't take a rocket science degree to see that. Others aren't as obvious until they slip up and show their true colours. Now which is worse, a loud-mouthed debunker who has been banned from forum after forum except for a dumb-assed one like Debate Both Sides OR someone who for years has been fixated on such an individual and who has been crying out that "chemtrails" are real, yet now seems to be in favour of supporting Paul Crutzen while dissing anti-air pollution people? Or perhaps the two somehow are on the same payroll. That would not surprise me. So next time this person accuses me of calling him a disinfo agent, he should realise he messed with the wrong person, that he should have just explained his bullshit commentary of late, he should have answered questions before this disinfo label started to stick. I also don't think it hurts the cause if the theory above is true. It just will show that we have to be diligent and critically think and continue to ask questions. If people refuse to answer questions, it shows that they are dishonest and have some hidden agenda.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 23, 2006 19:41:50 GMT -5
socrates,
As I see it, Wayne Hall's biggest problem is "Wayne Hall", who in spite of all his hollering about avoiding and ignoring Reynolds seems intent on making sure that Reynolds keeps on having a role in the global spraying debate, climate change, etc, to ad nausem, there seems to be a very strange relationship between Reynolds and Wayne to say the least.
This is not the first time that I have seen Wayne deliberately start something that he knows full well will incite that narcissist Reynolds into one of his raving frenzy's, it's almost as if he wants to see just how far he can get Reynolds to go in responding, like it's some sick game between them.
As far as I can see, it's all been a waste of time, Wayne's rather strange attachment and promotion of this whole Crutzen, more pollution is better, fill the atmosphere with sulfur BS which no one is buying into has proved just how much time Wayne has on his hands to waste with obviously little regard for anyone else's time.
I have to agree with Chem11 and you socrates when it comes to Halva / Wayne Hall, perhaps he needs to go on a holiday vacation and get some rest and forget about all of this gloom and doom stuff for awhile, clean out the cobwebs, etc.
Trying to keep up with his erratic, irrational postings is becoming if not irritating then certainly boring and I don't believe that anyone here at Gastro gives a rats ass what Reynolds is writing or thinking.
Wayne, take a subtle hint,........Go sailing for a week or two,...........get your head right man !
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Post by halva on Sept 23, 2006 21:39:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice. I have made it perfectly clear that I think the jury is still out as far as Crutzen is concerned. On Friday I tried to sell the idea to the British Council in Athens of inviting Crutzen to speak on his proposals at the Cafe Scientifique seminars they organize. Last year they had a series of seminars on Climate Change.
They turned down the idea, saying that Crutzen is Dutch and it is British Council policy in Greece to have only British and Greek speakers at their functions.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Sept 23, 2006 21:57:35 GMT -5
As I see it, halva, is
1) a valuable poster
2) somewhat obsessed with Reynolds
I had plenty of run ins with Johnny Spray Reynolds, and when I found out that Lib at Arriana's and Lulu at CTC was supplying him without IPs, I knew the message was clear, let Jay Boy consume his own tail, which he did. Tracker creamed him, Reynolds is now pissing in the wind, since NASA is claiming contrail planetary cool down, Air Force is using weather as a weapon, and Global Warming is only refuted by Exxon/Mobilites and Fox News. Reynolds is purposeless, and yes I agree with Socrates, Altituelou, et al, that perhaps halva should calm down a bit, and get start to parody these horrible issues.
It is much better to channel anger into sarcasm, parody, and humor than it is to externalize or internalize it. That only leads to disease.
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Post by halva on Sept 24, 2006 2:35:08 GMT -5
If everyone was sarcastic, what would there be to be sarcastic about?
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Post by Swamp Gas on Sept 24, 2006 9:44:06 GMT -5
If everyone was sarcastic, what would there be to be sarcastic about? While we still live on a planetary surface, with cowboys, suits, and fundies in charge, there is always something to parody.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 24, 2006 13:16:16 GMT -5
Halva wrote,
"If everyone was sarcastic, what would there be to be sarcastic about?" _________________________________________________
Perhaps you should address that question to Reynolds, he seems to be an expert of sorts on the subject of sarcasm.
Of course he has that whole Narcissistic Personality Disorder thing going for him so he kind of has the edge as far as sarcasm goes.
I have no doubt but what he could give you a proper education on "what would there be to be sarcastic about?"
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Post by Swamp Gas on Sept 24, 2006 14:02:46 GMT -5
At least halva brings truth to the discussion. Reynolds brings ZERO. In fact, Johnny Spray is really bitter, and not Sarcastic. He is good a spitting, and nothing else.
Sarcasm, wit, and parody does in fact have much truth in it. Look at a George Carlin or Firesign Theater.
I really do think everyone should have a cup of Hawthorne Tea, watch some Three Stooges, and stop with the bickering. Too much important work to do.
"The first sign of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence is a sense of humor".....Dr Tim Leary
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 24, 2006 20:45:50 GMT -5
""The first sign of Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence is a sense of humor".....Dr Tim Leary." _________________________
Speaking of humor.
I have to wonder, being that I survived the 60's if the good Dr. Leary did not originate that particular quote while on the high side of a fresh batch of LSD-25 ?,........Ha !
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Post by socrates on Sept 29, 2006 17:46:27 GMT -5
It looks like "chemtrails" has been figured out finally. It is primarily all about experimenting and working on all the stuff mentioned throughout this long journey of a thread. Here is LiveScience.com's take on the Crutzen crap emerging from a couple months ago. Scientist: Inject Sulfur into Air to Battle Global WarmingBy Sara Goudarzi LiveScience Staff Writer posted: 27 July 2006 excerpt: One way to curb global warming is to purposely shoot sulfur into the atmosphere, a scientist suggested today. The burning of fossil fuels releases carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere. It also releases sulfur that cools the planet by reflecting solar radiation away from Earth. Most researchers say the warming effect has been winning in recent decades. ----------------- Here is a good read on chemtrails. Chemtrail OverviewIt's from May 2004 from chemtrails911.com with IndyMedia comments. I think most if not all of the work has been done. Things just need to be presented to the politicians and media. If Democratics sweep, perhaps we finally see some justice, impeachments and trials, some friggin humanity and accountability.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 29, 2006 17:55:32 GMT -5
socrates wrote,
"If Democratics sweep, perhaps we finally see some justice, impeachments and trials, some friggin humanity and accountability." __________________________________
Let's hope the hell it's a sweep and not some half asses debacle, we need a break from the stinking right wingnut's !
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Post by halva on Oct 4, 2006 10:30:19 GMT -5
English translation of new short article by Aristarchos at "Enouranois":www.enouranois.gr/sygrafeis/aristarxos/index1.htmIn the shadow of everyday routine, and electionsSince the beginning of September we have observed a new escalation, on a daily basis, in the aerial spraying over the towns and villages of Greece. As has been mentioned before at this site, the phenomenon of the aerial spraying is a global – and not merely Greek – reality. Our skies crawl with these strange shapes – lines, crosses, parallels. The results of the recent phenomena we had for approximately two weeks in mid-Septmber. This is because the chemicals they are spraying us with absorb the moisture in the atmosphere, and create artificial clouds and moisture. These chemical compounds also contain toxic metals: aluminium, barium, titanium and others. These metals, which they spray in the form of microscopic particles necessarily end up in the water table, on cultivated farmland, in our lungs, among other places, and while this crime is being committed against the environment and our health, the relevant authorities are impressively “absent”, either because they don’t know exactly what is happening, or because they want to give that impression. At the same time, in the runup to the coming municipal elections, the government and the opposition parties occupy themselves with irrelevant bickering… clearly giving their consent and acquiescence to the plans of the powerful international criminal regime of globalization. And Greek citizens, like the citizens of every country of the so-called Western sphere are for the most part absorbed in the affairs of everyday life, family and professional obligations, and also the pursuit of the utopian “capitalist success story”… in these times many of our fellow citizens seem to have as their chief, indeed exclusive, goal the acquisition of bigger and more sumptuous material goods, whatever the cost and the negative effects of this endeavour on their health, their quality of life, their economic independence and freedom, as well as on their personal and social relations. As a result banks are the most profitable enterprises, readily extending every kind of loan with money they do not own, having made usury the most powerful, and apparently the most ”acceptable” form of profiteering. Our community seems to be in a state of stupor, perhaps because of the never-ending advertisements, perhaps because of the narcotic effect of other chemical substances that unknown agencies are spraying over our heads. In any case, relatively few of our fellow citizens appear to have the time, inclination or necessary level of alertness to be following the real news, the real “current events” of our times. All one has to do is look at the sky every now and then, or note the climatic changes of recent years to perceive that something both very strange and very significant is happening in our atmospheric environment. Something about which the official authorities and the mass media have so far maintained absolute silence. In the final analysis the question to be posed is this: Will the human community continue to live in the shade of everyday routine, in the shadow of each new round of elections and petty political “alternations” in office, in the shadow of ignorance and cultural obscurantism? Or will the few be able to awaken the many, to dispel that shadow that the international criminal regime has cast over our skies, our consciousness and our lives. The answer is to be provided soon, by you. Aristarchos
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 4, 2006 18:11:38 GMT -5
Halva,
That link does not work but the text could have been written by any one of us who are pro-chemtrail / spraying.
As I read it I found myself nodding in agreement with every aspect of it, it's a mirror image of thoughts that could be by anyone from any country that's seeing the spraying going on.
It does not matter who is reporting this activity, what matters is that it is being reported and the reporters can all be in agreement on the subject.
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Post by halva on Oct 5, 2006 0:10:13 GMT -5
Halva, That link does not work but the text could have been written by any one of us who are pro-chemtrail / spraying. The link works now, but the original text is in Greek. When you say "pro-chemtrail spraying" do you mean "anti-chemtrail spraying"? The writer, like you and me, is against chemtrail spraying. The only differences I have with the writer of that text are tactical, and they do not affect collaboration. Each of us pursues our own initiatives. March separately, strike together. On the chemtrail front on the island of Aigina, this might be of interest: www.enouranois.gr/Council_Resolution/indexenglish.htm
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Post by socrates on Oct 5, 2006 1:08:55 GMT -5
I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, but this story is from 2003 on a resolution to go after aerosol operations witnessed in Greece. One is left to wonder what happened and what exactly was the point of this post. I am not questioning this person's belief that "chemtrails" are real. That part of this makes perfect sense.
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Post by halva on Oct 5, 2006 2:05:30 GMT -5
Is this a veiled innuendo that I had something to do with them not proceeding?
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Post by socrates on Oct 5, 2006 2:32:49 GMT -5
If there was any innuendo to my post, it was simply that the intent to provide the link was to say, hey look at me, I think chemtrails are real. I am simply curious about what happened with the resolution, why litigation wasn't carried forward, and what is the Mayor or anybody else doing today about STOPPING the aerosol operations in Greece.
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Post by halva on Oct 5, 2006 5:17:56 GMT -5
If you were just curious you could ask me and I would tell you.
The answer is that I don't know.
Until recently we haven't had a team that would be up to the task either of carrying out a proper investigation of why they were advised not to proceed, or of liaising properly with Council members so as to avoid them getting the impression that we were going behind their back in order then to start making irresponsible accusations.
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Post by halva on Oct 5, 2006 6:14:43 GMT -5
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Post by socrates on Oct 5, 2006 22:58:27 GMT -5
Those pictures are disgusting. It would be nice to see a country like Greece outlaw that crap and prosecute. With NATO and the European Economic Community, it is easy for folks to buy into nwo type conspiracy theories. It'd be nice to break up these multination coalitions. We need independent nations like Ireland and perhaps Greece to lead the moral way for the pig states. We could use a return to neutrality for such places.
One month to go for US elections. George Bush, Pops not GW, is already whining about what if the Democratics win big. It is brutal here, but there is a ray of hope.
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Post by halva on Oct 5, 2006 23:29:28 GMT -5
Last night was a peaceful moonlit night in Aigina. An idyllic scene. My wife invited me to join her on the balcony to look at the moon.
Just then in the distance, a high-flying plane approached through the night leaving a very fat trail that was very very obvious even in the semi-darkness. Within minutes there were fake clouds across the face of the moon.
This morning is what normally would be a clear sunny morning. But the sky is full of shit.
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