Skeptical About The Bible?

[KNOWTHIS]

(To start off, I've seen the movie "The God Who Wasn't There" and it was excellent. It was nice to see a differing viewpoint about the Bible, Jesus and just how truthful the whole ancient story really is. If you're like me and have ever expressed any doubts either to yourself or out loud about such matters this documentary is for you)

Information:

Trailer

Bowling for Columbine did it to the gun culture.

Super Size Me did it to fast food.

Now The God Who Wasn't There does it to religion.

Holding modern Christianity up to a bright spotlight, this bold and often hilarious new film asks the questions few dare to ask.

Your guide through the world of Christendom is former fundamentalist Brian Flemming, joined by such luminaries as Jesus Seminar fellow Robert M. Price, professor Richard Dawkins, author Sam Harris and historian Richard Carrier.

See the movie the Los Angeles Times calls "provocative - to put it mildly."

Hold on to your faith. It's in for a bumpy ride.

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This website www.raptureletters.com/ was talked about in the movie, "The God Who Wasn't There". One man interviewed in it actually said that commercial airlines are rumored to have a policy that states that at least one pilot must be a non-Christian should the Rapture ever take place whisking away the Christian pilot off in to heaven. Someone like a Jew would have to remain to steer the pilot to safety and of course wait for eternal hellfire and torment on earth. OK, I added that last part but it’s true…according to the Bible that is.

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From the raptureletters website:

The rapture: When all the believers in Jesus Christ, who have been born again, are taken up to heaven.

After the rapture, there will be a lot of speculation as to why millions of people have just disappeared. Unfortunately, after the rapture, only non believers will be left to come up with answers. You probably have family and friends that you have witnessed to and they just won't listen. After the rapture they probably will, but who will tell them?

We have written a computer program to do just that. It will send an Electronic Message (e-mail) to whomever you want after the rapture has taken place, and you and I have been taken to heaven.

How is this accomplished, you might ask. It's a dead man switch that will automatically send the emails when it is not reset.

If you wish to do something now that will help your unbelieving friends and family after the rapture, you need to add those persons email address to our database. Their names will be stored indefinitely and a letter will be sent out to each of them on the first Friday after the rapture. Then they will receive another letter every friday after that.

This rapture letter service is FREE and will hopefully gain the person you send it to an eternity in heaven.

If you would like to see one of the letters which will be sent after the rapture, click here.

This is a personal ministry, if you have any questions or comments please address them to: [e-mail]

Thank you and God Bless You!

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From what I understand, Bush's information is already in the data banks of the site waiting to be sent out to those left behind should that big day arise. As far as I'm concerned, Bush can't disappear quickly enough to satisfy me. I wish that I could do something to speed up the process really. Only I feel that if there really is a heaven, then there must also be a hell and that's more likely where he'll end up.

There will be a sequel to "The God Movie" called "The Beast Movie" and it will be released on when else but 6/6/6. I'm expecting it to be a good one.

Information:

Forums

Trailer

Article

'The Beast' movie: Jesus didn't exist [Former Christian director's secretive film scheduled to open on 06-06-06]

A movie whose purpose is to prove that Jesus Christ never existed and that demonizes Christian fundamentalists is scheduled to open on June 6, 2006 – that is, 06-06-06, the "666" biblical mark of the Beast.

Directed by Brian Flemming, who is described on the film's website as a "former fundamentalist Christian," "The Beast" promises to spread the theory he claims is "gaining credibility among scholars" – that Jesus was made up out of thin air.

"The authors of the Gospels, writing 40 to 90 years after the supposed life of Christ, never intended for their works to be read as biographies. There are no credible non-Christian references to Christ during the period in which he is said to have lived," states the film's site.

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Here's how the film's promoters describe its plot:

When her father, a biblical scholar, mysteriously disappears, a Christian high-school student named Danielle investigates. She discovers that he had stumbled across a cover-up of Christianity's best-kept secret: that Jesus Christ never existed.

Now that she possesses proof of this dangerous fact, Danielle must confront two strong forces: a band of fundamentalist Christians who will stop at nothing to suppress the truth, and her own desire for Jesus Christ to be real.

Diving into factual territory well-explored by scholars but largely hidden from the view of the public, "The Beast" is an epic story of innocence lost, faith in crisis and the astonishing power of the truth to survive.
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Perhaps it is true that liberals really are "Godless"? Along with every other person that resides upon the planet. And it perhaps it's not by choice but because there really is no magical man in the sky peering down on us, judging us, waiting for us to perish? You can of course decide for yourself.

I can't say that I've completely discarded the possibility of the existence of a deity. I'm just not 100% convinced and I feel that all intellectually honest people should have the willingness to explore both sides of an issue. Even if, especially if it goes against the very core of your belief system. You may just be surprised at what you conjure up? Things aren't always as they seem. Remember that...

[Mech]

Jesus Christ WASN'T made upout of thin air.

In all actuallity christianity is based apon ancient sun cults and paganism.

Son= SUN of God

Born again. December 25th.

Son = Sun Dies on december 22 and "Born again" on the 25th.

What does the son = SUN do when it rises in the morning over the water?

It "walks on the water".

You just have to read through the lines.

Horus = Son of God
Jesus = Son of God

Mary= The mother
Isis = The mother

[KNOWTHIS]

That to me is the point. If that’s the case then people have taken the metaphorical descriptions of the sun, which is nothing more than a burning star and made it in to man. This is exactly what a myth is, no different than the Zeus, Poseidon and Ares of Greek mythology. In fact Jesus exhibited most of the same exact characteristics as many of these “Gods” as if they decided to keep the same allegorical tale and simply change the names and places. Literalists however won’t accept the stories as fable and instead teach that ‘the sun’ (or as you explained, Jesus) performed amazing miracles, came back from the dead after being crucified and turned water in to wine etc. If you ask most Bible believers about the names of any Greek Gods they’d probably say that they don’t spend time learning about pagan deities. These mythological characters of ancient Greece they see as absurd yet the story of Jesus is as real as the sun. That’s the main drawback of faith and religion, it requires you to disregard all other beliefs while tenuously clinging to your own dogma. No Jesus wasn’t manufactured out of thin air, he was a figment of ones imagination I believe like Santa Claus, the tooth fairy or the Easter bunny, all of which are often used to regulate the behavior of children. God and religion seemed to be the adult version? As Bill Maher said, “God is just an imaginary friend for adults”.

If people would simply accept the book for what it is, an old, entertaining tale of fiction with some interesting concepts about morality it would be fine. The problem is politicians are using this as a ploy to get votes and even use it to formulate policy domestic and abroad. This scares me considering everything that I’ve just mentioned. We might as well be legislating based on what Santa’s elves were quoted as saying in the north pole.


www.truthbeknown.com/cutner.htm

In 1950, mythicist Herb Cutner published his excellent work, Jesus: God, Man or Myth?, which not only explores the mythical nature of Jesus Christ but also provides a rare and much-needed summarization of the debate between mythicists and historicizers over the past few centuries. Contrary to popular belief, the idea that Jesus Christ is a mythical character is not new: In fact, the questioning and doubting of the gospel tale started at the beginning of the Christian era and has been continued by thousands, if not millions, since then. The historicization and carnalization of the Christ character was fought by the Docetic Gnostics, and the disbelief was addressed by early orthodox Christians as well, including the writers of the canonical epistles of John. Indeed, 1 John 4 condemns as "antichrists" those "spirits" who do not confess that "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh," as does 2 John 7, which says:
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Many, says 2 John, have contested the historicity of Jesus Christ, even by his day. Obviously, therefore, this dissension began with the dawn of the Christianity, which is understandable. If, for example, the average American today were approached with wild tales about some obscure religious fanatic who lived decades ago in, say, Mexico, and who purportedly did many miracles, from manifesting food and raising the dead, including himself, to ascending to heaven, would the person simply believe it, without any proof whatsoever? And be willing to accept this obscure preacher as the "Son of God" and God Almighty Himself? Such is the case with the story of Jesus Christ. In reality, the doubting of Christ as a historical character is not a "new fad"; those who argue otherwise are not informed on the subject.

[KNOWTHIS]

Luke 19:27- But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

[thinkagain]

If you really want to wake up a bible fanatic try this, ask them if they believe Jesus is good. Almost definitely they will say yes. Then ask them what the following means:

Mark 10:17-18

And has he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must i do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

Hmm, there are no "good people" including Jesus himself - how does that square with him being blamelss and sinless so that his death can be seen as a redeeming sacrifice?

[KNOWTHIS]

"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

And God supposedly made man in the image of himself. We're all just worthless sinners I guess?

[thinkagain]

hey, once someone accepts the premise that we are all worthless sinners, deserving of death.... it makes it a lot easier to use death and the fear of death as a political tool, and to even believe that one is doing God's will in all this.

of course one would have to ignore God's response to the first murder (Cain and Abel story)... God did punish Cain with death, only that he could no longer grow his food; morevoer, he even put a mark on Cain, and promised him that he would be avenged 70 fold if anyone did slay him.

(Of course, I'm not sure how one avenges someones murdger 70 fold....)

Sorry, but NO ONE has the right to take a life that God would not take himself (assuming that one is interpreting the world within the biblical paradigm)

It's simple response to any fundamentalist who believes in the death penalty... if God would not kill someone who mudrered his own brother and would even put a warning on him lest someone else would, why in the world would any person whom believes the bible risk the 70 fold wrath of God???
The problem is not so much those whp actually read and understand the bible, and who get these points... the problem are those who only use the bible to rationalize the violence and hatred they blood lust for.

knowthis said:

And God supposedly made man in the image of himself. We're all just worthless sinners I guess?

[KNOWTHIS]

Check out these quotes by our founding fathers.

www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html

Thomas Jefferson:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

More Jefferson:

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Jefferson's word for the Bible?

Dunghill.

John Adams:

Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Also Adams:

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Here's Thomas Paine:

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

Finally let's hear from James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they—the Baptists—who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state: Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.

In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should meddle in the beliefs of individuals.

The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest attention.