The Haderer-Hiess chemtrails book

[halva]

The book on chemtrails by Chris Haderer and Peter Hiess,
crop.mur.at/g7/chemtrails.html

published in Vienna in the summer of 2005, was translated into English some time ago.

At Haderer's request I refrained from makiing it available for free on the Internet.

A British publisher has now expressed interest "in principle" in publishing the book. He says: "It is very interesting, sensibly argued and unsensational, which is something of a relief." But he adds: "However, I do see it as something of a risky project, and wouldn't expect it to have a wide sale. We are a small company with limited resources, and at the present time we would be unable to put our own funds into the project. However, we would consider publishing if some external funding could be found."

So, if there is anyone here who thinks they might be able to help out with the raising of this external funding, they can indicate as much either here on the thread, or by private e-mail to me at halva_gr at yahoo.com

[halva]

The first offers of financial support for the Haderer project have come in from Portland Oregon.

[halva]

There seems to be a fairly complete overlap content-wise between Haderer and Jerry E. Smith's forthcoming "Weather Warfare".
www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=679010&postcount=7824

INTRODUCTION
Science Beyond The Box -- HAARP -- Geophysical Warfare -- Chemtrails?
--
Environmental Modification

Chapter 1: THE RAIN MAKERS

Chapter 2: WEATHER MODIFICATION IN THE TWENTIETH CENTURY
Cloud Seeding -- Other Technologies -- Hurricanes: Eye Of The Weather
Controversy -- Project Cirrus -- Project Stormfury -- Project Popeye

Chapter 3: EARTHQUAKES ON DEMAND?
Project Faultless -- Electromagnetic Waves And Earthquakes -- Tesla's
Earthquake Machine -- Scalar Weapons -- Project Seal

Chapter 4: ENMOD LEGISLATION
The National Weather Modification Policy Act Of 1976 -- Space
Preservation Act Of 2001 -- Weather Modification Research And
Technology
Transfer Authorization Act Of 2005 -- The Convention on the Prohibition
of Military or Any other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification
Techniques (ENMOD) -- The Law Of War -- Limitations On A State's Rights
In Conflicts -- Environmental Modifications Covered By ENMOD -- Crime
And
Punishment Under ENMOD -- Limitations Of ENMOD -- Air Force 2025:
Owning
The Weather

Chapter 5: HAARP
What Is HAARP? -- HAARP In The Media -- HAARP Science -- HAARP Timeline
-- Completing HAARP -- HAARP Today -- Space Shuttle Columbia -- HAARP
And
UFOs -- The Future Of HAARP

Chapter 6:CHEMTRAILS?
What Is A Contrail And How Does It Form? -- What About Persistent
Contrails, Are They Chemtrails? -- But Didn't These Persistent
Contrails
Just Start Appearing Recently? -- Contrails And Global Warming -- The
High Bypass Turbofan -- Global Dimming - Aviation Smog -- Contrails And
Scientific Research -- What Has NASA Found? -- Contrails And 9/11

Chapter 7: GEOENGINEERING
A Sunscreen For The Planet? -- Dr. Strangelove -- Stratospheric
Welsbach
Seeding -- Patently Obvious -- Alaska Flight 261 -- "Deep Shield" --
Other Theories

Chapter 8: CONCLUSION

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

APPENDIX A
CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF
ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES (complete text)

APPENDIX B
HAARP Patents

APPENDIX C
WEATHER MODIFICATION PATENTS

BIBLIOGRAPHY

The market may not be big enough for both these books at the moment. Haderer's immediate prospects may be better in Greek than in English.

[halva]

This is what Jerry E. Smith says:

"After a quick run through the manuscript of the Haderer book I don't see a problem with your marketing it in the US. If you read my book you will see that I don't have anything that is not supported by mainstream sources. Your book relies rather heavily on Will Thomas and other"conspiracy" Internet sources. As such, your book covers a vast area of the chemtrail phenomena that I don't. Those who want unassailable "proofs" will read my book; those who accept "fringe" sources will think I'm a "sell out" and read yours. As we both cover many of the same topics, each book will work to "confirm" the other." (snip)

Four thousand eight hundred dollars is needed to bring Haderer out in English. A group in Portland Oregon has offered to put an unspecified amount towards this. Having contributed free translation work, I am not in mood for putting in capital myself.

It is not the easiest task in the world from Greece to try canvass for money to bring out a book in English.

[kola]

Why not sell online downloads 5 bucks?

Kola

[altitudelou]

Wayne, how can you pimp your second hand book when you don't even know who your debating with at DBS?

I took a look at the DBS sideshow today and what do I find, Halva debating with Reynolds who is now using the name "Smell",_ God, that's so lame, the writing style is identical to Reynolds down to the LOUD RED CAPITALS he likes to use so often and Wayne hasn't got a clue.

www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=397&page=785

Wayne, wake up, Reynolds has gone missing, not responding to post and this junior member " Smell " shows up, "Smell" is Reynolds you moron, your being played by him again, again, again and again, how gullible are you anyway?

If it was not so pathetically inane it would be hysterically funny.

[socrates]

When I first saw the name Ed Snell, I was thinking Smell, Smoke, CydoniaQuest, all those fake id's. It'd be nice to prove there is taxpayer money going into fake posts attacking what they refer to as the chemtrail hoax.

[altitudelou]

Socrates,

I don't know if these Trolls you mentioned are on anyone's payroll or not, as Tracker pointed out at CTC in the "About Jay Reynolds" thread, Reynolds does not appear to be intelligent enough to be a trusted employee of an operation of this scope and size, knowing how he operates it might be that he believes that he is doing there work like some fanatic religious zealot.

I'm sure that you have read Reynolds grandiose self promoting website information that reads like some kind of comic book super hero, it's obvious that he thinks of himself as better than the average person, the bullshit he slings about being a champion for exposing government conspiracies is a load, this guy is a RIGHT Wingnut Republican Neo-Con-Artist lying puke and everyone knows it.

Why Wayne who has debated and fought with Reynolds for years now can not tell when Reynolds goes into his Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hide routine, becoming yet again someone else is a real mystery to me, Wayne must not have a bullshit meter and if he does, it isn't working, period.

I took one look at Reynolds post and then this Smell's post and they are nearly identical in writing style, this really makes Wayne look the fool big time, then, I guess that must be part of the reason why Reynolds is posing as Smell, Wayne is just playing right into it without so much as questioning who he is really posting with, not that it matters much, Wayne seems to be on a self destructive trip lately, if it isn't Reynolds beating him it probably will be someone else, kind of sad really but I can't worry about Wayne Hall, he has been rubbing me the wrong way for months now, whatever he gets he no doubt deserves, I have no interest in getting involved in his madness with Reynolds, they deserve each other.

Any bets on Smell coming here to Gastro and posting ? ( LOL )

[halva]

kola said:

Why not sell online downloads 5 bucks?

Kola

I would have to get the permission of the Austrian publishers to do that, which I don't think they would give, and certainly not for free. And it would involve me in a lot of administrative work and responsibility that I would prefer to leave to others, such as the British publisher who wants to bring out the book but not to risk his own money.

[halva]

I don't think Ed Snell is Reynolds. It is one of his little band of hangers-on. They discuss their collective strategy at some hellhole of a forum that I have visited once or twice but don't know how to find now (and don't want to find).

They used to intervene more vigorously and aggressively, but now only come in if Reynolds is really in trouble.

Two questions: why bring Reynolds to this thread on the Haderer book? And: do you share the view that Reynolds should either stop bullshitting or get out of "politics"? Do you make this demand? What is your attitude to the reply I gave to Swedishoo?

Is Reynolds someone else's problem and your entertainment? Or do you agree that it is Americans rather than foreign liberators who should be finding a solution to him and what he represents?

[altitudelou]

Halva wrote,

"I don't think Ed Snell is Reynolds. It is one of his little band of hangers-on. They discuss their collective strategy at some hellhole of a forum that I have visited once or twice but don't know how to find now (and don't want to find).

They used to intervene more vigorously and aggressively, but now only come in if Reynolds is really in trouble.

Two questions: why bring Reynolds to this thread on the Haderer book? And: do you share the view that Reynolds should either stop bullshitting or get out of "politics"? Do you make this demand? What is your attitude to the reply I gave to Swedishoo?

Is Reynolds someone else's problem and your entertainment? Or do you agree that it is Americans rather than foreign liberators who should be finding a solution to him and what he represents?"
__________________________________________________________________

"I don't think Ed Snell is Reynolds. It is one of his little band of hangers-on. They discuss their collective strategy at some hellhole of a forum that I have visited once or twice but don't know how to find now (and don't want to find).

""They used to intervene more vigorously and aggressively, but now only come in if Reynolds is really in trouble.""


Wayne,

Open your eyes and look at the writing style of this "Smell", it has every earmark of Reynolds writing down pat, it has the identical bold red highlighted lettering, the nasty, sarcastic, Reynolds venom and acid tone, come on Wayne, use you brain, if this is not Reynolds, it is his clone.

Whether or not you agree is of little concern to me.

" Two questions: why bring Reynolds to this thread on the Haderer book? And: do you share the view that Reynolds should either stop bullshitting or get out of "politics"? Do you make this demand? What is your attitude to the reply I gave to Swedishoo?"

That's four questions Wayne but no matter, why not bring Reynolds into this thread, you bring him into whatever thread that you choose to when you choose to ignoring your own advise to everyone to ignore Reynolds, so, don't bitch about my bringing him into this thread, that would be a bit hypocritical of you, now wouldn't it?

I know that Reynolds is only going to shut up when he is either put in the ground or the aerosol spraying program(s) are revealed to public and he no recourse but to close his mouth on the subject, you seem to be under the false impression that "We" can do something to make Reynolds refrain from publicly criticizing those of us who are pro Chemtrail /spraying, the reality is that he has every right to do that within this country, even if he is an anal prick, he lies, distorts, misleads, fabricates and completely revises the facts of what we see taking place above us in the sky he is afforded the protection under our Constitution and Bill of Rights to do all of that, unless he breaks the law there is nothing anyone can do to stop him from running his big mouth and it's highly unlikely that he is going to just quit on his own accord.

You seem to believe that Reynolds is some great challenge that must be overcome collectively by all that are Chemtrail / spraying believers, in truth Reynolds is just an annoying little gnat, flitting around, trying to draw attention away from the now millions of people who are seeing the spraying for what it truly is, a highly illegal act, they also see Reynolds for what he is and he amounts to little by comparison.

The best thing that anyone can do with regard to Reynolds, is nothing, let him rant on, who cares other than you, he is not bothering anyone here, how can he, he has been ostracized by his own hand to an obscure section of a forum that even his once loyal lackeys have abandon. Reynolds no longer poses a significant threat to anyone unless they choose to engage him directly, as you do.

So, you see Wayne, Reynolds is really not "OUR" problem at all, he is your problem as long as you choose to confront him, that's up to you.

[socrates]

It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature

Hey Lou, I think Ed Snell is Smell, aka Smoke, Spikey, Mach10 types. If Reynolds is using multiple id's, however, this would lend more credence to the idea that he is a paid troll. I did notice that the new attack against Halva at DBS is about his sanity. "They" want us to look nuts. It definitely feels that there is a paid campaign to infiltrate chemtrail boards.

posted by Foot Soldier:
"Ed Snell aka "Smell" wrote:

.........and Mr. Hall wants Jay Reynolds imprisoned for pointing out it's the Sun causing global warming.........

It's the sun.....

Yeah, OK, Smell.

<yawn>
__________________
.......It was not by being heard but by staying sane that you carried on the human heritage.......

-George Orwell / 1984 "

posted by Halva:
"For God's sake Footsoldier don't start arguing with these morons. Go to Gastronamus.

What on earth is going on in your mind? Not a peep out of you for months - above all not on the subject of aviation emissions where you have detailed knowledge that we do not have - and you suddenly come back to argue the toss with "Ed Snell".

Are you a conscious saboteur or just totally lacking in common sense?
__________________
Let us deal gently with the truth. No more scaremongering: about nukes, about the climate, about terrorists, about anything. "

Halva might want to be nicer to F.S. if he expects to have a relationship with her. Geez, she was sticking up for Halva, as she has done before, and yet again he jumps all over her.

I like it that we have free speech in America, and that people can't be arrested for their words, as long as they don't pose a physical threat to anyone. There's the old saying we got here, I may not agree with you, but I'll fight for your right to say it........

[altitudelou]

Quote: Halva / Wayne Hall

""For God's sake Footsoldier don't start arguing with these morons. Go to Gastronamus."
_________________________________________________________________________

Well Wayne, you have finally given yourself away in telling Footsolder to go to Gastronamus to incite argument, no doubt for the same reasons why you come here. Your attitude is not lost on anyone here I'm sure.

As I have thought these past months, you are an instigator, an agitator that comes here with your baggage from DBS to deliberately create conflict and chaos, what's the point Wayne, whatever you start here will follow you right back to DBS or is that the point, you don't have enough people in your little discussions at DBS so you think by coming here and starting arguments that will somehow get people involved at DBS, I can not speak for others but I want no part of your BS at DBS and I have no intention of joining in your scheme there to rid that forum of Reynolds, I told you that months ago when you were begging for me to join DBS, forget it Wayne, it isn't going to happen so you might as well drop the mind games, I'm just as wise to your physiological attempts at manipulation as I am those of Reynolds, your not fooling anyone Wayne.

Where are all of the debaters that post at the DBS science section Wayne, have they had enough of you and Reynolds and moved on to more constructive forums where they can discuss issues like Chemtrail's / spraying without being attacked at every turn for voicing their opinions, gee, imagine that, being able to discuss an issue calmly with others, I have an idea, why don't you get the hell out of DBS or stop coming here and crying about your problems there with Reynolds.

Come here without the attitude or agenda Wayne and we can talk about Reynolds in passing or something anal he may have said but it will not be the main topic, when someone brings up Reynolds here it usually is secondary, not primary to the subject being discussed.

[halva]

altitudelou said:

Open your eyes and look at the writing style of this "Smell", it has every earmark of Reynolds writing down pat, it has the identical bold red highlighted lettering, the nasty, sarcastic, Reynolds venom and acid tone, come on Wayne, use you brain, if this is not Reynolds, it is his clone.

Apparently it is Smell. One of his little hangers on, as I said.

I know that Reynolds is only going to shut up when he is either put in the ground or the aerosol spraying program(s) are revealed to public and he no recourse but to close his mouth on the subject, you seem to be under the false impression that "We" can do something to make Reynolds refrain from publicly criticizing those of us who are pro Chemtrail /spraying, the reality is that he has every right to do that within this country, even if he is an anal prick, he lies, distorts, misleads, fabricates and completely revises the facts of what we see taking place above us in the sky he is afforded the protection under our Constitution and Bill of Rights to do all of that, unless he breaks the law there is nothing anyone can do to stop him from running his big mouth and it's highly unlikely that he is going to just quit on his own accord.

I believe that you are under an obligation to make it perfectly clear to Reynolds (or to me, so that I can tell him) what you are demanding of him. Otherwise it is only he who is engaging in politics and only he who has rights, because he is asserting his rights and you are not. You are merely waving your Constitution, and using it to defend HIS right of free speech.

Our substantial "right of free speech", our right to be citizens rather than a stigmatized caste called "conspiracy theorists" is only going to mean anything when someone takes political responsibility for chemtrails/geoengineering. They will then officially exist and we will be allowed to have opinions about them: to be for them or against them.

[halva]

altitudelou said:

Quote: Halva / Wayne Hall

""For God's sake Footsoldier don't start arguing with these morons. Go to Gastronamus."
_________________________________________________________________________

Well Wayne, you have finally given yourself away in telling Footsolder to go to Gastronamus to incite argument, no doubt for the same reasons why you come here.

Footsoldier is a marvellous person, in no way argumentative and very well informed. She would be an acquisition to any properly moderated forum.

[altitudelou]

Halva / Wayne Hall wrote,

"Footsoldier is a marvellous person, in no way argumentative and very well informed. She would be an acquisition to any properly moderated forum."
______________________________________________________________

Wayne,

Obviously your interpretation of my post leave something to be desired in the way of your comprehension, I find it hard to believe that you interpret for a living.

I was in no way criticizing Footsolder but you, for telling her to come here and be argumentative, how presumptuous can you get?

Halva / Wayne Hall wrote,

"I believe that you are under an obligation to make it perfectly clear to Reynolds (or to me, so that I can tell him) what you are demanding of him. Otherwise it is only he who is engaging in politics and only he who has rights, because he is asserting his rights and you are not. You are merely waving your Constitution, and using it to defend HIS right of free speech."

""Our substantial "right of free speech", our right to be citizens rather than a stigmatized caste called "conspiracy theorists" is only going to mean anything when someone takes political responsibility for chemtrails/geoengineering. They will then officially exist and we will be allowed to have opinions about them: to be for them or against them.""
___________________________________________________________

Wayne,

Let me be very clear here, I am under no obligation what so ever to make demands on Reynolds or anyone else with regard to what they believe in, or do not believe in, or what they write about, if I disagree or agree with them is my decision and what I do about it is my business, if I choose to reply one way or the other, that is also my decision and I do not need to be told be you or anyone else how I should think based on the actions of another, discussion is good, it leads to the formulation of opinions but you must realize that we all have our own opinions and that is what counts here, individuality and the right to our thoughts and the right to express same.

That's called Democracy, not Wayne's world,... Wayne !

[altitudelou]

"You are merely waving your Constitution, and using it to defend HIS right of free speech."
______________________________________________

Well, like it or not, even Reynolds does have that right just as much as we do, you see, here in the U.S. of A. we all have the right of free speech and when we start limiting an individuals right of free speech we start to undermine the foundations that this country was built on, undermine it enough and the whole thing comes crashing down, so you see, it's just not a smart thing to do, that's why most of us lowly Americans don't want to see our Constitution messed with, we have and still are spilling our blood to preserve it, that's how much value we place upon it, don't mess with the paper_that's the facts Jack !

[halva]

altitudelou said:

"You are merely waving your Constitution, and using it to defend HIS right of free speech."
______________________________________________

Well, like it or not, even Reynolds does have that right just as much as we do, you see, here in the U.S. of A. we all have the right of free speech and when we start limiting an individuals right of free speech we start to undermine the foundations that this country was built on, undermine it enough and the whole thing comes crashing down, so you see, it's just not a smart thing to do, that's why most of us lowly Americans don't want to see our Constitution messed with, we have and still are spilling our blood to preserve it, that's how much value we place upon it, don't mess with the paper_that's the facts Jack !

You are saying all these wise words at a forum where your beloved American "right of free speech" is not respected. Swamp Gas does not make a theory of it, but he has referred to a "right to listen", which he attempts to protect by violating certain Americans' "right to free speech".

The "moderators" at DBS apply your political philosophies, with the result that you do not even dare, or deign, to go there.

[Swamp Gas]

halva said:

You are saying all these wise words at a forum where your beloved American "right of free speech" is not respected. Swamp Gas does not make a theory of it, but he has referred to a "right to listen", which he attempts to protect by violating certain Americans' "right to free speech".

The "moderators" at DBS apply your political philosophies, with the result that you do not even dare, or deign, to go there.

halva, I am perplexed. Are you saying I don't promote freedom of speech? Does Freedom of speech mean you can go into someones house as a guest and call the host an asshole to their face? Does it mean a black man can go into a bar in Lubbock Texas and called the patrons White, shit-kicking honkys and half breeds to their faces, or does a Redneck go into a bar in the South Bronx and call the patrons "Niggers" to their faces?

I think we are pretty tolerant to say what you want here, but this is our house and clubhouse, and like a cub scout den leader, we can't let the boys fight among themselves sometimes.

Besides, where did I ever say you can't state your opinion about non-personal matters? It is one thing to say this or that about controversial subjects, but it is something quite different when attacks are thrown at members. I have stated this before, and I will state it again.......Say whatever you want on whatever subject, but keep name calling out, or bring it in the Discussion Lounge, or in a PM.

[halva]

I am not accusing you in any way, Swamp Gas. Quite the contrary. I have no complaints at all about the way you are handling this forum.

I totally support you in denying Reynolds and company "the right of freedom of speech" here at Gastronamus Cafe.

If you don't want to follow the philosophical implications of that in the direction I want to move the discussion, I am not going to make an issue of it, particularly at the moment when there are so many other positive and more interesting things happening.

[halva]

I did, however, open a discussion with Swedishoo and if anyone wants to continue it, I will.

[BigBunny]

Halva, the truth is that you are pining for Reynolds and you can't face the reality of your situation.

[halva]

I am glad that Reynolds has left DBS and I hope he doesn't come back.

[Swamp Gas]

Thanks for the clarification halva.

BigBunny, personally, I don't mind if people bring up Jay "Johnny Spray" Reynolds in conversation. He is a focal point of the hysteria and insanity of government sponsored spooks and crackpots, much like GW Bush was for the Neo-Cons. I do know that there are more insidious people behind Bush and Reynolds, and by keeping a spotlight on their front end goons, we keep the spotlight on them also.

As far as Ed Snell (Smell, Cydoniaquest, Whitemajikman, Buzzkill, guntoter. fastwalker, smoke, etc), he is probably here as someone else, or greenman, or else trying to be a "friend". When I went to Maverick's, to get them all to discuss their bowel movements, I came as me, and no one else. This proves what snakes the Neo-Con lovers are. At least with Reynolds, he always is the same name and person. You either let him in a site, or you throw him off. It is like I said to Smoke/Smell/Snell at CTC, "It is a shame that you are on the losing side, and aligned with the Busheviks......We could use someone who devotes so much time to posting". I am amazed at how much Reynolds and Company are quoting from Gastronamus though. Seems like we are the new target instead of CTC. Funny, since the site started out and remains just a friendly place to exchange data and make friends.

[altitudelou]

Well said Swampgas, I can add nothing to that, your a hard act to follow !

Yes, it is strange to see how much quoting is being done from Gastronamus by those at other forums like DBS, as I said, we must be doing something right to be the subject of so much attention by the lurkers and trolls.

[halva]

We ARE doing something right.

[socrates]

What Lou said.

[socrates]

I think what is great about Gastro is the facade of Bizarro that keeps the dumbasses rattled. We let "them" think that we are perceived as weed loving peaceniks who believe in ufos and aliens. Yet under the surface and between the lines is some eye opening chemtrail discussions and information.

"They" don't like our interest in hard science and truth. They don't like that they are being watched, that they will be photographed and documented. Such information will be given to our Senators if they don't BACK OFF!!

The Bizarro strategy screws them up, they want mmmmbarium and other tin foilists to be the screwball face of chemtrail forums. Ha Ha Ha. Who else but the hippies to know the real deal??

They try to frame everything. They cannot. We are part of the untouchables !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They think so many are looking into Reynolds, Smell, the truth is people are finding the nitty gritty, no one buys any of those tabloid crap websites anymore. They are scared. Paul Moyer is not CTC. Paul Moyer might be trying to pull an Olbermann here. Fingers crossed he isn't some alphabet soup puppet.

[altitudelou]

As posted in the thread,..."As a pilot, I have a confession to make."


Seriously, people who live their lives locked within paradigms of their own making are truly the narrow-minded, they can not and never will see clearly if they are not flexible enough to realize that nothing in life is set in the ridgedness that they perceive it to be, all is in a constant flux, a cascade of Omni changes that we humans have only begun to conceive of and become aware of at the lowest levels that our tiny mental process will allow, one thing is quite evident in life, people who believe that they know everything_surely know nothing !

So much for the Reynolds and those ridged goose-stepping thinkers like him in this life, they are lost to their own self imposed ignorance because they do not have the mental capacity to accept any realty other than the one that they are taught to believe in, they can not and do not want to escape the prefabricated paradigm that holds them prisoners in their own little narrow minds.

Free thinkers, forward thinkers are those of us who can see with clarity outside of the ridiged paradigm, we see the global warming, we see the spraying and so many other things for what they really are, without the blinders that the non-free thinkers impose upon themselves that keep them from seeing the truth, even when it is right in front of their eye's.

[halva]

The Portland Oregon group is prepared to put up to one thousand dollars of the four thousand eight hundred needed to bring out Haderer in English.

I am exploring some ideas on how to raise the rest without paying it out of my own pocket, having already done the translation for nothing. I'm not going to do that.

It's no good trying to raise money for it in Greece. There is some hope of raising money for a Greek translation, but not an English translation.