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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 7, 2007 23:14:34 GMT -5
I agree halva.
So you do believe that the main reason for Aerosol Mitigation is reversal of Ozone Hole Blow out?
It would be ironic that one of the same people responsible for knocking it out would be the same person wanting to reverse it.
Reminds me and Thetaloops (she pointed it out) that Sloan-Kettering was founded by the same guy who put lead into gasoline, which gave Standard Oil refinery back in the 1920s, a 90% cancer rate. They made money on the lead additive, and then again on the cancer treatment centers that the same lead was causing
Slimy bastards....
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Post by halva on Jan 8, 2007 0:17:23 GMT -5
I agree halva. So you do believe that the main reason for Aerosol Mitigation is reversal of Ozone Hole Blow out? I don't know the answer to questions like this. This is the kind of thing that people like Crutzen should be telling us if they want to gain the trust of the public. Unfortunately I think that contacts with well-meaning and knowledgeable scientists are going to have to be off-the-record at least in their first phase. Because of the dysfunctionality of the political system, scientists have acquired very many bad habits.
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Post by altitudelou on Jan 8, 2007 1:12:31 GMT -5
Sorry for posting this here but I did not want to start another thread just for this trash.
Big Bunny wrote at Megasprayer,
"While I can understand your distress at what you are witnessing Ontheground there are certain matters that you should understand from the outset.
Some posters such as Lou are convinced that this is a military operation alone. For some reason Lou has a fixation about the KC-135 refueller aircraft and specialised spray equipment. It is my sincere belief that the so-called "sprayers" are actually any aircraft that utilises either of the aviation fuels JP-A and JP-8 has in effect become a defacto "sprayer". The Devil is in the fuel not the aircraft - to be precise the sulfates in the fuel. This being so the number of aircraft involved nearly equate with your daily air traffic. I am aware of the allegations that specified "unidentified" aircraft criss-cross the sky so as to contaminate the clear skies. Whereas I witnessed a Singapore Airlines aircraft leave a Chemtrail (CT) on leaving Sydney International Airport on a Sunday night in August, 2005. I may be wrong on the date but it is posted somewhere in this great expanse we call Megasprayer. Ontheground you will notice the subtle differences between my statement as opposed to the assertions by Lou and the other conspiracy theorists. You need facts to argue your case, not mere hearsay and a bunch of pretty photos. So in answer to your question, the secret bases that you seek are your local airports and the evil sprayers are your friendly airlines etc.
The real enemies are the corporate stakeholders such as the Oil industry, the Aviation industry and dare I say it the International Banking and Insurance industries.
As you will have noted above, I'm located in Sydney Australia and like elsewhere we have daily CTs of varying intensity. It has been like this in Australia since at least 1999. It is extremely rare for military aircraft to be involved simply because we don't have many. However most CTs emanate from normal commercial traffic with no single carrier being the sole perpetrator.
As for spraying and the storms in Colorado - please note aircraft fly over storms usually rather than through them. If there are going to be CTs you will see them through breaks in the cloud cover unless you are enduring "white-out" conditions.
You are right - nothing is natural anymore. I suggest that you do browse the archived materials here because many recent "discoveries" on other Forums have already been dealt with here. "
Big Bunny,
Your certainly are entitled to your opinions but I do take exception to the tone of your recent post at Megasprayer, it has a certain pretentious elitist , know it all kind of thing sticking all over it.
I am not at all convinced that this is a military operation alone as you contend because I don't know if the military is involved because I can not prove it, no more than you can prove that the CT's are caused by sulfate fuel additives, if that had a hope in hell of being true we would not be observing them turn the CT's on and off at will, for them to do this all pilots would have to aware of this spraying and are taking part in it actively, I find the very thought of all commercial airline carriers being involved in this CT operation almost as preposterous as those who claim that Aliens or Satan are responsible for the spraying.
I and thousands of people all across the U.S. have observed aircraft that appear to be military 'like' wide body jets, some KC-I35", KC-10A Extenders, and what appear to be converted civilian aircraft involved, they are always observed in conjunction with the spraying, and yes, the rational deduction would be that they are military, have you been here and observed this for yourself or are you just being an armchair quarterback and second guessing what we have been observing here for years now?
I do not particularly care for your smug intellectual self-righteous attitude, I am willing to entertain smart opinions but not smart ass accusations, acting this way will only get your material tossed into the same can as that of any foul mouth debunker_thank you BB.
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Post by socrates on Jan 8, 2007 2:56:17 GMT -5
posted by Lou: "...Sorry for posting this here but I did not want to start another thread just for this trash..." No. Don't feel sorry at all, you have been posting on topic this whole thread. Like yourself, I have no problem with people holding separate beliefs, but when it comes to the chemtrails, if we can't even agree that all aircraft ARE NOT involved, then I don't know who to believe or discuss this with. There is nothing wrong with wholesome debunking, it's when people don't debate fair is when we see conflicts arising. I cross-posted this at CTC by the way, and if anyone checks it out, they will see many people who can't seem to stay focussed on the given topic, but in the spirit of moving ahead from worrying too much about the disinfo at other sites, I will throw in one last point from this whole mess. A few months back, I delved into their sulfur jet fuel theory. I couldn't believe they were saying that all aircraft are involved. Chem11 went on to explain that the military is exempt by a huge amount from the commercial sulfur specifications. So at that point I was like, aah, this chem11 angle makes a lot of sense. But now he is saying all aircraft are involved, and he uses airliner.net photos as his evidence. No need to repeat. I am sorry if this has gotten repetitive. To me there is really no debate. We know what we see with our eyes, and what BB wrote just doesn't add up. A while back when I had seen this from him, he conceded that he couldn't speak for America, he even implied that there would always be this confusion between Australian and American observations. Big Bunny knows he can't debate this in a civil manner and win. That is why he is steering clear of Gastronamus Cafe. Of course, I am taking the Arcadian hit for being an "agitator" for the destruction of the Chemtrail Awareness Movement. Oops, sorry to Chem11, I should have said the Supercontrail Awareness Movement. That's okay. Someone's got to take one on the chin once in a while in the pursuit of truth. All aircraft are involved? ;D ;D
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 8, 2007 12:45:05 GMT -5
I agree halva. So you do believe that the main reason for Aerosol Mitigation is reversal of Ozone Hole Blow out? I don't know the answer to questions like this. This is the kind of thing that people like Crutzen should be telling us if they want to gain the trust of the public. Unfortunately I think that contacts with well-meaning and knowledgeable scientists are going to have to be off-the-record at least in their first phase. Because of the dysfunctionality of the political system, scientists have acquired very many bad habits. What is your working theory of Aerosol Mitigation then?
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Post by halva on Jan 8, 2007 16:22:53 GMT -5
Isn't it possible to get by without a working theory, Swamp. Does Thetaloops have a working theory?
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Post by socrates on Jan 8, 2007 19:01:26 GMT -5
I do think it would be better for this site over all if we could limit the amount of discuss on what goes on with trouble at other sites. Who cares what they are saying about our scientific and philosophical discussions here? It's tough to ignore, though. Chem11 just wrote this today about Swampgas in the reptoid thread: "Sour grapes. He's ticked because he didn't get the nod for moderator here. One day he's virtually abandoning his own forum and removing every word relating to CT's, the next he's publicly accusing me of being everyone from Smell to Thermit. Thermit's a pretty public guy, and everyone knows who he is (including Swampgas). But why let the truth get in the way of a petty vendetta...?" I am shocked that Chem11 turned out to be a disinfo dispenser. But in trying to stay true to your call to move beyond bs at other forums, I will make an open statement to them here by repeating something Arcadia said a while back. We might not respond to every single piece of nonsense coming out of fakes, but they shouldn't think because we are quiet that their bs has gone unnoticed. One could write page after page, day after day about the nonsense being put out there on the internet. At Megasprayer, they have ads all the time for Thermit's websites. Thermit has said that nearly all that we see are contrails. Chem11 just dropped the ball and exposed himself. He thought I would just take his insults and not fight back. Now why he also went after Swampgas is the part of this I don't understand. It's as if he has self-destructed on purpose. Maybe he is not Thermit, but they are definitely on the same payroll.
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Post by altitudelou on Jan 8, 2007 19:56:47 GMT -5
Socrates wrote,
"To me there is really no debate. We know what we see with our eyes, and what BB wrote just doesn't add up. A while back when I had seen this from him, he conceded that he couldn't speak for America, he even implied that there would always be this confusion between Australian and American observations.
Big Bunny knows he can't debate this in a civil manner and win. That is why he is steering clear of Gastronamus Cafe. " ______________________________________________________
My beef is not whether or not BB is observing something different than we are here in the states, he very well could be, my beef is with him being a rude intellectual boorish snob and not recognizing that there are hundreds f thousands of Americans that have been and still are observing what appears to be military type aircraft involved in this Chemtrail spraying.
I would no more begin to tell BB what he and other Ozies are observing down under because I don't know what's going on there, I'm not there but I do respect BB's observations and trust that what he is reporting is correct but BB seems to think that "RESPECT" is something that isn't necessarily mutual and has taken to rude references to what we are observing here, I have a real problem with people who choose not to 'respect' the word of others but expect to be respected.
I'd like to here what BB has to say about this, I just don't write people off because we obviously have a difference of opinion, I welcome an explanation by BB with regard to his rude post at Megasprayer, perhaps it was just a momentary lapse of reason, CT Fog or mouth over brain moment, whatever it was I'll give BB a chance to respond up front.
BB, your a member here so what do you have to say for yourself,......you have my attention.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 8, 2007 21:24:11 GMT -5
Chem11, I will not step foot in your site again. You are another one gone over the edge. Since you are reading this here are some points to consider:
1) I asked you if you NEEDED a moderator, since Ed Smell was allowed free reign at Megasprayer, and some posters are known to put posts up about shooting planes down at CTC. I was doing you a damn favor, I thought
2) Sour Grapes??? LOL! If it wasn't for BigBunny, you're site would be a graveyard. I have been following your stats and Gastronamus, and we have more posts and members posting than you do in the last 6 months.
3) I posed a hypothesis that you and Thermit were following the same pattern of subterfuge. Since you are allowing garbage like Ed Smell on board, and attacking halva, Socrates, and myself, you are not to be trusted. Since Thermit was hacked supposedly by someone who grabbed a cookie off an open port under his name, and you were nowhere to be seen in recent weeks, there was the possibility that Smell or someone else similar hacked your site.
4) I trusted and supported you since the beginning. I talked highly of you. I encouraged people to post at your site. Are you now on the same payroll directly or by proxy as Smell, Johnny Spray, Scott Stevens, Thermit, and all of the other people who have stepped off the path of Truth and are now disinformation purveyors?
5) I never abandoned Gastronamus. We put Aerosol theories into 4 categories. The site is more vibrant than ever.
CHEM11 is speading disinfo and half-truths at Megasprayer
Remember this everyone, Chem11 wants this to happen, not me, not Socrates, not even halva in certain ways. Divide and conquer.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 8, 2007 21:48:48 GMT -5
Isn't it possible to get by without a working theory, Swamp. Does Thetaloops have a working theory? Halva. Try this. Here are my working theories in descending order: 1- UV-B Blocking 2- Global Warming reversal or Acceleration 3- weather control 4- HAARP 5- Inoculation 6- Population culling 7- Aliens 8- Demons Of course, some are much more viable than others, and I seriously doubt aliens and demons are doing any spraying, but included them for reference.
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Post by Thetaloops on Jan 8, 2007 22:13:41 GMT -5
I can see that this thread has been going hot and heavy and can see no immediate danger in continuing the discussion. I don't think we are trying to proclaim absolute answers on this subject. Maybe BB is a bit snobbish, but this is a British/Aussie thing anyway, and I'm of British decent so I feel that I can say that. I think he has had allot of good things to say and his observations maybe valid from where he is. Just as our (Socrates, Swampgas, myself, etc.) observations of military aircraft and selective spraying here. We have to respect that we are seeing these things.
I'm not sure if Chem11 feels a bit like his CT Kingdom is being threatened by Gastronamus? Whatever, to me it is like marking territory and this is going to only make us more separated. I suggest we try and control the emotions and continue to try and uncover what is going on. Socrates and Halva are curious and persistent investigators on this subject and are welcome here. I don't think anyone including Swampgas and myself are claiming to know all the answers.
I appreciate Halva's inquiry about what my thoughts on the subject. I agree with him:
"This is the kind of thing that people like Crutzen should be telling us if they want to gain the trust of the public.
Unfortunately I think that contacts with well-meaning and knowledgeable scientists are going to have to be off-the-record at least in their first phase.
Because of the dysfunctionality of the political system, scientists have acquired very many bad habits."
Scientists are infamous for making huge assumptions and causing big problems and then trying to cover them up by just not mentioning the issue. I have been angry about this fact concerning CT's since we started to observe them 6 yrs ago. Maybe they are trying to fix the ozone layer, which was blown out by nuclear testing or aerosol spray cans? But, at least present the problem to us and let us help figure out the answers. No, we have to just be the victims. Spray us with aluminum, barium and titanium, we're just mice in a maze, what do we know. I tend to think that this is what is going on. They are creating these trails by adding chemicals to the fuel, whether it be military of commercial planes? Ozone is a world wide problem. Maybe TPTB like the idea of cutting down and dumbing down the population? I certainly wouldn't put it past them. With the dirty tricks that have been played on the mass public throughout history.
Maybe by our continued research we will be able to put our heads together and expose their deeds. It is like an evil force that is stopped by exposing their cover.
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Post by socrates on Jan 8, 2007 22:14:38 GMT -5
Chem11, I will not step foot in your site again. You are another one gone over the edge. Since you are reading this here are some points to consider: Halva and myself definitely aren't the best of buddies, but we both had the same experience being locked out and then have himself and Big Bunny saying we were lying. It's as if he's let that place fall apart on purpose. I couldn't post there until I asked you if you could wake Chem11 up to take care of new members. He is absent for long periods of time. It is funny how he twists things around like Lord Spray does. With me, he said that my theory is that the military have taken over the commercial planes. With yourself, he is saying... Swamp: pretty please can I moderate at Megasprayer Uncle Chem11? Chem/Thermit: I'm sorry son, I need serious researchers, not Amsterdam peacniks ruining my great presentation. And please hush hush about Scott Stevens' beliefs about the Japanese Mafia's involvement in the epic weather wars. Here's a buck, go get yourself a soda pop son. Unless he means the couple days where you shut it down due to excessive bickering. I think he is jealous of your ability to communicate in a friendly manner with all different types of people. If he isn't disinfo, he is simply neurotic, burnt out, upset that he never figured out chemtrails despite all these years of "research". By the way, I think the moving of the threads then placing them back created address changes to the links, so I think certain links to Gastro aren't going to work. But that's ok, the truth is still out there. When even Thetaloops who seems to look at this type of stuff at a glance says he sounded and acted completely different to any way he has ever before, then maybe he is a character played by more than one person, or was told to change strategy, or he is just another confused, bitter individual.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 8, 2007 22:21:53 GMT -5
Unless he means the couple days where you shut it down due to excessive bickering. I think he is jealous of your ability to communicate in a friendly manner with all different types of people. If he isn't disinfo, he is simply neurotic, burnt out, upset that he never figured out chemtrails despite all these years of "research". By the way, I think the moving of the threads then placing them back created address changes to the links, so I think certain links to Gastro aren't going to work. But that's ok, the truth is still out there. Yes, the threads are all still there, even the CTC moderator threads. If you need a link, or we need to bring it back to the surface again, we always can.
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Post by socrates on Jan 8, 2007 22:39:44 GMT -5
I've always wondered what happened to the CTC Changes threads. Those would be useful to anyone interested in the downfall of CTC.
I meant the time when you hid every chemtrail thread from Gastro because it was getting too heated, and you needed to do your moderating thing.
What I meant was I saw Cosmic Cowbell linking recently to Megasprayer, where I was actually sticking up for Chem11 about the Val Valerian stuff. But that link was a crosspost from Gastro. I am not sure, but I think the original post of mine was from the Questions to Greece thread. I think when you put the threads back up, for some reason any previous links to them aren't working. This is what it seems like.
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Post by socrates on Jan 8, 2007 22:52:15 GMT -5
posted by Swamp: "CHEM11 is speading disinfo and half-truths at Megasprayer Remember this everyone, Chem11 wants this to happen, not me, not Socrates, not even halva in certain ways. Divide and conquer."
I'm still unsure whether Chem is deluded or is paid, but certainly paid forces are playing this up as the chemmies beating up on themselves. It's like you said about Arcadia, how he got that reputation unfairly. It's just a big old mind game going on. They should really stop pressing this, whoever "they" are. It's not working. It is backfiring. They can't have the cake and eat it too. If they want "good" websites to promote how they they want chemmies to be projected, they can't stop sincere people from rocking their boat with common sense. Word is getting around that chemtrails are real but the chemtrail websites aren't. If they would learn not to mess with the sincere people, their schemes wouldn't continually be exposed so much.
On a side note, Arcadia is on fire at Rigorous Intuition. It looks like he is moderating there again. He is up against the insane Organite crowd led by Don Croft's brother-in-law posting as Dragon. I like some of the posters at that forum but am still waiting for that Jeff Wells to call the nonsense for what it is. Thankfully, at least Arcadia and a few others are taking care of that crap. If that is chemmies eating their own, then that is good.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 9, 2007 0:24:54 GMT -5
I'm still unsure whether Chem is deluded or is paid Frankly, I don't care anymore. People will find his site, and people will find Gastronamus Cafe. From there, they can sift through the muck, and make their own decisions. I think Thetaloops has the best assessment....The Elvis of Chemtrails is being challenged by The Beatles. Like Elvis, Chem11 does not want anyone else to take away the crown. So hopefully, this thread will disapate quickly, and we can get on with things.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 9, 2007 0:36:56 GMT -5
Halva and myself definitely aren't the best of buddies, but we both had the same experience being locked out and then have himself and Big Bunny saying we were lying. I have been saying this all along. Halva was one of the most prolific posters in the early days of CTC. He was hounded and attacked by the likes of Fastwalker, PHXpilot, Smelly, you name it. Thermit would just let this crap go on. I of course, did not, but Therm it hijacked the site. Maybe it was him who hacked it, and then immediately lefts the IP bans, and lets Smoke/Smell remain on there, and now CTC is a sad joke, full of aliens, demons, orbs, Global Warming deniers, debunkers, and Pilots. Now correct me if I'm wrong halva on any of this. It is just my observations. Then halva leaves CTC and goes to DBS, and fights tooth and nail with Boomerwhore, Smelly, and Johnny Spray. Let me say this, if I fought so many people like that, I would become out of sorts. EMFX13 and I start Method of Destruction. I still have the admin access there, and you want to see threatening and filthy posts, they are still there, tucked away. It is still my opinion that these people, Chem11, Lulu, Maverick, Thermit, Smelly, Spray, Carnicom, Stevens, Phelps, Gaiacomm, etc, are either insane or paid. Or some are the same person.
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Post by socrates on Jan 9, 2007 0:42:10 GMT -5
There doesn't seem to be anything left to say. Yeah, let the reader make up their own minds.
"I think Thetaloops has the best assessment.... The Elvis of Chemtrails is being challenged by The Beatles. Like Elvis, Chem11 does not want anyone else to take away the crown."
I think it's like that star trek with two kirks, and the reader has to figure out which one is the evil one, or maybe it's the one where Spock gets drugged and becomes too human, loses his logical side, maybe that's what happened to Spray's buddy.
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Post by socrates on Jan 9, 2007 0:50:02 GMT -5
So that leads to the question if whether havoc, bickering, and disinfo was the plan for CTC from the start. It appears that way.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 9, 2007 1:03:02 GMT -5
So that leads to the question if whether havoc, bickering, and disinfo was the plan for CTC from the start. It appears that way. And, did you know that when that hack was happening two years ago at CTC, and I caught someone using Thermit's account, I emailed Thermit at 9:30 AM EST. It was 7:30 AM MST, and Thermit came back 10 minutes later and was "surprised". Sometimes I wonder whether it was actually Thermit who crashed his own site. Now Chem11, like his counter-part, has become a rabid dog, attacking anyone who dares question the sulfate theory, and yet keeps Ed Smell there nice and handy. Either insane or paid.
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Post by socrates on Jan 9, 2007 1:24:56 GMT -5
Chem11, Big Bunny, Thermit, Reynolds are all debunkers. The Lord of the Onions is at least up front about it.
Yeah Swamp, this whole thing was planned out. Makes chemmies look like tinfoil. If anyone doubts what I am saying about the manipulation of reality by disinfo pigs, just check out the words of Jim Garrison posted on the RFK killed by CIA? thread.
I have always thought Big Bunny was shady, but was never able to say anything until now. Chem11? ha, a total surprise. I can be too trusting. I'm shocked that he turned out to be a complete arse, but I am happy that he has been exposed, that all of them keep exposing themselves as debunker frauds, part of some cointelpro like plan. Word.
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Post by socrates on Jan 9, 2007 2:03:16 GMT -5
I just want to say if no one wants to read this, I don't mind. I know it shouldn't matter what other people think in real life, but what if this is a mini infowar battle going on? At Megasprayer, the psy-ops has gone into full operation. Contrails And The Dark Sideposted by Big Bunny: Some light reading for those of us who are interested in reality Cross influences of ozone and sulfate precursor emissions changes on air quality and climateHahaha. This is blatant. Gastro is the dumb, emotional side, the conspiracy tinfoil side. Megasprayer is where the real smart science readers are. Check out the article. It's a paper only a real scientist could fully get through without getting a headache. But Mr. Ozzie Nelson and none of them do much more than copy and paste. Plus, they have exposed themselves as having been insidious debunkers all this time when they vomit out that every plane is involved. Deborah: Thank you. Ha. This is psy-ops 101 and they suck at it and deserve to be exposed as the psy-op frauds they are. Please keep in mind that I'm not sure about Deborah, I can only speak about the two prime fakes who declare THAT ALL AIRCRAFT ARE INVOLVED! What's that below at Megasprayer, banners for The X Network? Is that Thermit's websites? Anyway Bunny keeps copying and posting like mad with next to no words of his own. But heck, Megasprayer is smart, Gastronamus is baked in the cafe duderinos and dudettes! Chem11: Something I wanted to call Deborah's attention to... ...since she brought up NOx remediation earlier. Big Bunny: The sixth step in the argument is the conclusion. I wonder what your conclusion will be? What a bunch of low grade no good psy-op debunkers with their obvious lame pitch that they are into reality, they are smarties, they have all the answers, they know who what is disinfo and what is not, they know that ALL AIRCRAFT ARE INVOLVED IN THE CHEMTRAILING!!! Maybe a visual can show you what I am trying to say: This is Megasprayer: Carl Sagan: (BBC News) Here is Gastronamus:
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Post by halva on Jan 9, 2007 3:41:44 GMT -5
I'm still unsure whether Chem is deluded or is paid Frankly, I don't care anymore. People will find his site, and people will find Gastronamus Cafe. From there, they can sift through the muck, and make their own decisions. I think Thetaloops has the best assessment....The Elvis of Chemtrails is being challenged by The Beatles. Like Elvis, Chem11 does not want anyone else to take away the crown. So hopefully, this thread will disapate quickly, and we can get on with things. Frankly I can see no evidence at all that we can expect ANYTHING to dissipate, Swamp, unless you assert yourself as moderator and tell Socrates to put a sock in it. In other words enforce the new forum rules. Elvis vs the Beatles is a nice way of putting the differences with Megasprayer but let’s remember that the Beatles finally lost the script too. It makes no difference today whether we worship Elvis or the Beatles. Admittedly Elvis never had the script in the first place, but there is no difference finally between never having it and losing it. We are pioneers. The territory we are reconnoitring is uncharted. We have to use our brains. We can’t rely on ready-made myths. There are some of us here who are not using their brains enough. If they keep doing this it is not only themselves that they turn into a laughing stock. If Socrates is “Jeff Reynolds” let him put some of that energy he is unleashing against Chem and Big Bunny into throwing mud pies at Reynolds at DBS. There is a lot of material on record now at Megasprayer that could be deployed very embarrassingly here if things start getting nasty again. Thetaloops DOES have the best assessment. But the assessment has to be incorporated into moderating policy also. Otherwise it remains ineffectual.
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Post by Thetaloops on Jan 9, 2007 12:42:32 GMT -5
What I would like to know is what war we are fighting here on the internet? Is for the integrity of our sites (Gastronamus and Megasprayer) or the integrity of the human race? Because at this rate, we are loosing both, throwing sucker punches at each other and calling each other names is very childish and unproductive. I really think that a lot of valuable information has come out of both of our sites. I don’t really understand where this started, but as far as I’m concerned this is going nowhere. Obviously making light of this name calling is only making everyone more fired up. I still stand on the idea that neither site has the absolute answers. It takes a fool to know one. So if we are all being foolish by continuing this. I’m asking that we stop it right now. No more dragging nasty comments over here from Megasprayer and no more nasty comments from Gastronamus about them. Or else this thread will be locked. This is the only site that we have any control over, so let’s stay here and make it a scientific study and a place to exchange a joke now and then, but not at someone else’s expense (hurt feelings). This is a place for discussion of ideas not a boxing rink. I apologize for any comments that I have made that made this worse. I have not been on line that often for this exact reason. That it seems to be that we end up fighting amongst ourselves. I go back to the original question, ‘what war are we fighting?’ the war against each other or the war against the perpetrators who are destroying our skies and health? Very often we are our own worst enemy, divide and conquer; it’s a very effect war strategy. I thought Gastronamus and Megasprayer were on the same side, the victims, trying to protect the human race? If the resolution is to stop posting on each others sites then so be it. I really hope not because I think we will need each other in the long run. Swampgas is at Jury duty and has not been able to access this post, but I think he would be in agreement.
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Post by socrates on Jan 9, 2007 15:47:59 GMT -5
What I would like to know is what war we are fighting here on the internet? Hi Thetaloops, the internet is a funny thing. It isn't limited to 13 or 113 channels like television. Also, there has never been a moment in history when the common Joe/Jane can rattle off free speech at forums or blogs. With search engines, individuals or groups of people can focus their energies on specific topics. It has been proven that there is paid fakery all over the internet. I believe that the true fight over the www is for the truth to shine. I believe that this current conflict is about the integrity of both websites and by extension all websites which discuss and research chemtrails. I like you. Please do not take this the wrong way. But this thread has shown that it was the other side, a place where myself and Swampgas have posted at, which jumped the shark into insanity. Unless Chem11 doctors the reptoid thread, anyone can see that it was he who started this whole mess. Now this is where I don't want you to take me the wrong way, but myself and Swampgas were the ones who were sucker punched. Is it now our fault if we ended up beating them up and exposing their fraudulent ways? They are the ones who started this fight. But I see your point about how this type of thing shouldn't be the be all end all of a website. That is why I have tried to balance my theories and proof of psychological operations on the internet as regards to chemtrails with actual productive information of such phenomena. Have you read the words of Jim Garrison in the RFK thread where he exposed NBC and Newsweek for being accessories to a cover up of the murder of JFK? Do you think psychological operations is tinfoil nonsense? I never have gone after psy-ops until it has been shoved in my face. Uhm, it started in the Reptoid FAQ link I provided at the start of this thread. Unless that has been doctored one can see where all this started. You are a moderator here, so I have to listen to what you are saying. Others like Halva, I can simply ignore. This is the unfair advantage that the psy-ops have. They go into overdrive making the honest inquisitor seem to be an agitator. This is what happened to the real Socrates many years ago. He spoke too many truths to power. They told him to shut up or leave. He decided to not be pushed around and fought instead for truth and integrity, and he didn't care what any elitist pig thought about it. With all due respect, I think you are being quite naive to not see that there is a lot of psy-ops and propaganda being put out on the internet, whether by chemtrail sites or with other topics. Unfortunately, it is the truthseeker who ends up taking the wrath of the "authorities". It is the socratic individuals who end up being pigeon holed as agitators and disruptors, when all they wanted was open disclosure. That's why this thread was created and happily for you has run its proper course. The two websites did seem to be on the same side. But when the other side reveals itself as either being insane or paid to confuse, and when they take off the gloves and give you sucker punches, what other option is there than to fight back against the lies and distortions. Myself and Swampgas have pretty much exposed this situation. Please reflect on the Jim Garrison history, on the real Socrates. If we are unable to expose the fairy tales, what good are we for? So lock this thread away if you want. I (Swamp too) kicked their asses and exposed their bullshit. Locking this thread at this point will do nothing to erase that fact, unless this thread gets stored away like the Jim Garrison history. posted by Swampgas: "I have been saying this all along. Halva was one of the most prolific posters in the early days of CTC. He was hounded and attacked by the likes of Fastwalker, PHXpilot, Smelly, you name it. Thermit would just let this crap go on. I of course, did not, but Thermit hijacked the site. Maybe it was him who hacked it, and then immediately lefts the IP bans, and lets Smoke/Smell remain on there, and now CTC is a sad joke, full of aliens, demons, orbs, Global Warming deniers, debunkers, and Pilots. Now correct me if I'm wrong halva on any of this. It is just my observations. Then halva leaves CTC and goes to DBS, and fights tooth and nail with Boomerwhore, Smelly, and Johnny Spray. Let me say this, if I fought so many people like that, I would become out of sorts. EMFX13 and I start Method of Destruction. I still have the admin access there, and you want to see threatening and filthy posts, they are still there, tucked away. It is still my opinion that these people, Chem11, Lulu, Maverick, Thermit, Smelly, Spray, Carnicom, Stevens, Phelps, Gaiacomm, etc, are either insane or paid. Or some are the same person." Why doesn't Halva answer these questions rather than providing you with fodder to shut down this thread? Huh? Swampgas and myself have taken a keen interest in putting into perspective the history of the chemtrail forums. I'm sorry if this topic isn't something you are aware of and are sincerely mistaken in seeing me as being an agitator.
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Post by halva on Jan 9, 2007 16:00:08 GMT -5
There is no way that anyone can know whether or not you rather than each individual you accuse, is the spy, psy-op and agent, Socrates.
Because this is true for all of us, I do not accuse you. I merely point out this fact for you to understand.
It is true that it is the moderator rather than I who should be saying this to you. Swamp did say it once, but it seems that you require to be told many times.
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Post by halva on Jan 9, 2007 16:05:15 GMT -5
You are a moderator here, so I have to listen to what you are saying. Others like Halva, I can simply ignore. Socrates, the fact that you tell everyone else in this way that you can ignore me means that you are not listening to what Thetaloops says. The more so when you not only say that you can ignore me but also demand that I answer questions you ask. Does this mean that you will ignore what I say if I answer your questions? I take it that the key question is whether Chem 11 is insane or paid. Is that it? And if I answer no, you will ignore this. Right?
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 9, 2007 16:45:23 GMT -5
OK, back from jury duty. No cases, and I will be there tomorrow.
Speaking for Thetaloops, no she is not naive. She just doesn't like conflict. She has been following JFK, Garrison, the USA/Nazis for as long as I have. I remember her and I discussing "The Occult Reich" back in 1973, and dealing with Neo-Nazis the same year.
Of course there are psy-ops rampant over the Internet. Of course people that you think are OK, turn into foaming-at-the-mouth rabid dogs. Of course there are people who try and befriend you, but really are getting information.
I will say that Chem11 started this crap, as Socrates and I just went over to Megasprayer, and this rabid dog attacks us. Our theory didn't match his. The King's thrown was challenged.
Halva, I am trying to say that Socrates and you have something in common now...hated by Lord Chem. Me, I am not surprised by the instability of people that think they are more powerful than they are. There is an old saying that if you give the average person the power of Hitler, they become Hitler.
I don't think locking the thread is the answer. JUst let Chem11, Megapsrayer, Thermit, CTC, Johnny Spray, Ed Smelly, ad nauseum, fade into the sunset where they all belong. We have a better overall site than CTC and Megasprayer, and we should just contribute to that.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Jan 9, 2007 16:50:32 GMT -5
Ho! Ho! So Sagan is Megasprayer!!!! Sagan did nothing to prove any of his theories, on there being no interdimensional life and reality, contrary to some of the current Physicists and mathematicians like Michio Kaku, Robert Anton Wilson, Danah Zohar, Roger Penrose, Amit Goswami and Fred Alan Wolfe who have proposed quantum mechanical models in which neurological process is a correlate, an analog, an acausal parallelism to a consciousness that is hyper spatial, nonlocal, not “in” the brain. Those who have had OBEs and NDEs have experienced that consciousness can exist outside the body and is actually greatly enhanced by being out of the body. This is a direct challenge to Sagan's belief in Linear 3 dimensions. He should have stayed with the provable theories and facts like global warming, ozone depletion, nuclear winter, Venusian warming, and space science. When he got into "disproving" paranormal, he started looking rather foolish, and I likened him to an Inquisitioner rather than a scientist at that point. He became the PT Barnum of Science, rather than the next Einstein, Nikolai Tesla, John Wheeler, or Fiorela Terenzi. Ever see telepathy and pre-cognition in animals? Here is another look at "Professional Debunkers", those who make a buck off of what they perceive as Pseudo-Science. www.phact.org/e/z/problem3.htm
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Post by halva on Jan 9, 2007 16:51:01 GMT -5
I find that I have something in common with "Jeff Reynolds" at DBS. I do not find that I have anything at all in common with the Socrates that posts at this forum.
Do you think they are the same person, Swamp?
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