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Post by altitudelou on Sept 29, 2006 17:35:06 GMT -5
Hey, there is a new player over at Debate Both Sides, mom_p_3. "mom", as she wants to be called is giving Reynolds and his ilk some crap, she just posted a nice piece on Thomas Schlatter and Mr. Patrick Minnus that's pretty interesting and well worth reading, no debunker is going to like it but the truth hurts,.......them that is ! I have to wonder why Wayne didn't run right over here and let us know about the latest Reynolds fest going on over there, he usually can't resist, anyway, check it out if your interested. www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=642699#post642699mom_p_3 Again this will have to be done in two parts as it is long. We have the low class, crude debunkers like Reynolds that aggressively assault anyone that attempts to speak to the issue of Chemtrail's / Spraying and seems to spend his every waking moment with his debunking but there are far more dangerous people than the Reynolds types, they do the same thing that Reynolds does only they are paid government debunkers that hide behind their scientific credentials and do their dirty work, unlike Reynolds who is just a hack. Anyone who is familiar with Mr. Thomas Schlatter and Mr. Patrick Minnus know that these two government lackey's have been deeply involved in efforts to dispel any such thing as "Chemtrail's / Spraying", Etc, they have both gone to extreme lengths in producing volumes of text that disavows the slightest possibility that anything other than normal contrail's exist in our sky's, their Government funded position on the issue is very clear to anyone who has read their work and much of what they portray in scientific terms is absolutely correct but there are also contradictions in what these gentleman put fourth when confronted with photographic evidence which proves the contradiction in point. An example of the contradiction's would be, Quote 1: Mr. Thomas Schatter "I consider these claims unfounded. There is no evidence in the meteorological literature or in photographs to support them." ( Referring to chemtrail's / spraying.) __________________________________________________ _ Obviously Mr. Thomas Schatter has chosen a closed minded approach to addressing the issue by immediately discounting any and all photographic evidence put forth by the public and has continued to address the issue with a bias that a person can only have if they enter the issue with pre-conceived ideas of how they should respond. There are literly hundreds of Chemtrail site with thousands of pictures of chemtrail's being made and in various stages of spreading out over hours. __________________________________________________ _ Quote 2. Thomas Schatter , "Chemtrails are laid by aircraft flying for hours in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns are tell-tale signs. At least for now and unless they have to divert around thunderstorms, commercial jet aircraft fly on specific routes--wide highways in the sky." __________________________________________________ _ So, Mr. Thomas Schatter does not believe in any way that aircraft are flying in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns, he is very spific on this point but he also attrubutes this non-activity to commercial jet aircraft when the majority of reports of the chemtrail's / spraying indicate that it is being done by military type aircraft. Ok now, one can not just discount the mountains of video and photographic images that have been taken by countless hundreds of thousands of people the world over that show and contradict Mr. Thomas Schatter's in which he disagrees that aircraft are making Chemtrails by flying for hours in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other. Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns, all one has to do is look at the photographic evidence to understand that Mr. Schatter's position on the issue is skewed and, well, very much wrong. Here are a couple of images that prove that aircraft do indeed fly in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other, produce Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns that Mr. Schatter states adamantly that they never do. [ Do they or don't they? You be the judge. ] Trail's/Furrows laid in close proximity, yes or no ? www.rense.com/general52/CHOL.HTMwww.rense.com/general52/chemms.htm Yes Mr. Schatter your quite correct, aircraft never make "X" in the sky, Yes or No ? www.rense.com/general52/chem.htmwww.rense.com/general52/chemm.htmAgain Mr. Schatter, your absolutely correct, aircraft never make grid like patterns in the sky, Yes or No ? www.rense.com/general51/spray.htmhome.nycap.rr.com/averillpark/chemtrails.htmwww.rense.com/general50/chmm.htmwww.rense.com/general47/cover.htm Cont,...Part 2. _______________________________________ Part 2. The only rational conclusion that a person can make when Mr. Schatter states that aircraft never fly in dangerous crossing patterns and in illegal proximity to each other make Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns is that he does indeed discount any and all photographic evidence presented via the public that would obviously counter Mr. Schatter preconceptions on the issue of "Chemtrail's /Spraying" being conducted in our atmosphere. I have not only viewed thousands of images like these from all over this planet, many with the same strikingly similar characteristics of aerosol spraying but I have spent countless hours observing firsthand, aircraft doing just the things that Mr. Schatter claims that they never do, how is that possible if Mr. Schatter is correct in what aircraft do and do not do, if he is the authority and we can plainly see that there is a blatant contradiction between what he claims about aircraft flight patterns and how normal contrail's differ from the chemtrail's and what we have been observing of them since the mid 90's, how then can we believe what Mr. Schatter claims ? I would put forth the assumption that Mr. Schatter and others such as Mr. Patrick Minnus are helping to conceal and cover-up programs being conducted by our Government and or military as well as other world Governments in the area of aerosol spraying for reasons that are being tightly withheld from the public even though we can clearly see the aerosol spraying being done in our sky's. Government officials and agencies such as NOAA, NASA and the USAF are all quick to deny and disavow any knowledge or involvement in any aerosol spraying programs or operations, so quick in fact that it makes those in the general public take even further notice of the strange Ariel activities that are taking place in the sky's around our planet in recent years. Proof of Ariel aerosol spraying has come from [ATC] Air Traffic Control personal at various airports in recent years when called by concerned citizens when they observed massive spraying in there areas, they were usually told by ATC people that what they were seeing was a military exercise or maneuvers taking place, that's why they were seeing all of the aircraft and contrail's. The FAA policy of telling people that they were seeing a military exercise or maneuvers has been suspended as of 2004, in it's place ATC personnel are not allowed to relate anything to the public other than what pertains to the air traffic that they are controlling, nothing is now said about military flights seen by ATC personnel, it is just no allowed. When FAA officials have been questioned as to why they no longer allow ATC personnel to comment on military flight activities in there areas, the official response being offered is that the military is not within the control of the FAA and ATC personnel only monitor civilian flight operations. It would seem based on these recent policy changes by the FAA with regard to public information that someone does not want the public to connect the spraying activity that they are seeing in the sky to the fact that it is the military that they are seeing doing it, according to past ATC statements to the public. It is obvious to those who have made calls to local airports, i.e. myself included, to find out just what is going on with all of the highly unusual amounts of air traffic at times in our sky's only to be given the pat, canned answer or to be disconnected entirely or switched to the [TSA] Transportation Security Administration who have no idea of what your talking about does not speak well to the FAA or the people responsible for putting the pressure on the FAA to change prior FAA policy. __________________________________________________ _ Quote: Mr. Thomas Schatter "Contrails along parallel paths or criss-crossing contrails are merely indications of busy flight corridors. Many hundreds of aircraft are in the air over the United States at a given time, and many of them leave contrails. It is usually obvious at flight level but not often from the ground that the contrails are at different levels. Even if the contrails cross at the same level, the aircraft that created them were never less than a few kilometers apart". __________________________________________________ ___ Excuse me but didn't Mr. Schatter just contradict himself as he firmly believes that aircraft do not fly as to create Parallel furrows, Xs, and grid patterns? What can I say, yes there are hundreds of aircraft in the sky's over the country at any given time but they are not all in the sky at once in one particular area, they are usually quite spread out with the exception of heavily congested airports, the very notion that I should be able to look up at the sky in rural South Carolina, Ohio, Texas or any other state and see hundreds of aircraft filling the sky at any given time is a ludicrous and laughable statement considering just how spread out air traffic is between major airports, the exception is day's that they spray, on those day's the sky's are full of jets for hours on end. [ And people wonder why I believe that aerosol spraying is being conducted. ] Whether or not the debunker is a Reynolds, Schlatter or a Minnus, their actions result in the same old tired hawking that there is no such thing as chemtrail's or aerosol spraying going on in our atmosphere, by Mr. Thomas Schlatter's own words he has just proved with regard to how aircraft behave just how obviously wrong he and his debunker cohorts are, they are nothing but liars, hypocrites and government mouthpieces spewing out exactly what the government wants them to say, misinformation, disinformation, anything but the truth. As Mr. Reynolds says, "I'm just ignorant", well, in some respects I might just be that but I'm smart enough to figure out that he, Schlatter and Minnus are total liars and none of these trained dogs that belong to Big Brother can or should be trusted_ever !
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Post by socrates on Sept 29, 2006 17:54:04 GMT -5
Hey, there is a new player over at Debate Both Sides, mom_p_3. I saw that too Lou. She is doing pretty good for herself. Don't let me join there! I would be Mike Tyson going after Frank Burns. That guy is so lame. As our ideas keep evolving, he who shalt not be named is still stuck in 1999.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 29, 2006 18:41:48 GMT -5
socrates wrote,
"I saw that too Lou. She is doing pretty good for herself. "
""Don't let me join there! I would be Mike Tyson going after Frank Burns. That guy is so lame. As our ideas keep evolving, he who shalt not be named is still stuck in 1999"". ___________________________________________________________
Yes, mom seems to have a bit of grit in her, she sounds like a military mom, I would not want to piss her off, I bet she has a mean right cross,....... Ouch !
I know what you mean about "Not" joining Debate Both Sides, I could not be there with that freak Reynolds, I'm just to much of a triple AAA personality to hang out at a forum that he calls home, I'd end up going looking for him and I own a number of firearms.
Did you catch her putting Halva in his place, she put him on ignore after he told her to go and post someplace else, I don't know what crawled up Waynes ass lately but he's off his game, some of the shit he has been spouting off about lately is just, well, Bullshit.
I'm going to be watching "mom", I like her tenacity and style.
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Post by socrates on Sept 29, 2006 19:50:08 GMT -5
Yes, mom seems to have a bit of grit in her, she sounds like a military mom, I would not want to piss her off, I bet she has a mean right cross,....... Ouch ! Did you catch her putting Halva in his place, she put him on ignore after he told her to go and post someplace else, I don't know what crawled up Waynes ass lately but he's off his game, some of the shit he has been spouting off about lately is just, well, Bullshit. He thought I was the old hippie and Mom was Reynolds. Talk about trippin'. I've gone into the iggy mode too. She was funny, calling everyone Mr. this and Mr. that over and over again, like she says, she can be a bitch, but at least she is no liar. She would make a fine back up for Judge Judy or go toe to toe with Olbermann's special comment. She sounds as everyday Jane t-shirt as they get. She'd probably like it here, if she's looking for good chemtrail talk. I went to megasprayer, made about ten posts, basically duked it out in fight club, asked chem11 a few questions. This place feels like home. Hey mom, if you're out there and reading this, good job on doing to Reynolds in one day what others can't do over periods of many years. You should get over here. Peace. Good weekends all, even for he who shalt not be named #'s I and II.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Sept 29, 2006 19:59:50 GMT -5
this mom does sound like someone who would like it at Gastronamus.
But remember, Reynolds has a goon on the inside. If "Lib" is still there, it is that person.
Much like CTC had Lulu funneling IPs over to Reynolds and the Maverick's Crew.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 29, 2006 21:44:55 GMT -5
Ha, "mom" told that dirt bag Reynolds off in style because he said that she stated that prescient contrail's did not exist when she said nothing of the kind, Reynolds just can't read English. www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=642699#post642699Originally Posted by Mom And just where did you read in my post that I stated that there is no such thing as persistent contrail's? Quote: Reynolds "In your first posting, this is what you said" __________________________________________ Originally Posted by Mom "what really struck me was the fact that none of these trails dissipated, I've seen contrail's from planes all of my life and I have never seen one not dissipate over a few minutes, this was crazy to me, I even argued with my husband over it because I just could not believe that these planes were spraying stuff but the more I watched, the more convinced I became that they were spraying" "After about a week of really paying attention to the planes that were flying over I found that it was quite easy to tell the normal jet contrail's from the other non-contrail's that lasted for hours" www.debatebothsides.com/show...&postcount=1231__________________________________________________ "Mr. Reynolds are you a complete idiot, how can you read what I wrote and say that I said persistent contrail's do not exists, what part of normal contrail's dissipate over a few minutes do you not understand dim-whit! read what I wrote, "I have never seen one not dissipate over a few minutes", in that they all dissipate you dumb ass hillbilly cracker ! Yes, "I found that it was quite easy to tell the normal jet contrail's from the other non-contrail's that lasted for hours" in that they do not dissipate like normal contrail's, how in the hell do you read that I said persistent contrail's do not exists from that, your an idiot and your just trying to piss me off, your twisting my words to suit your agenda just like the dammed Republicans do, your a lying revisionist gritz eater and I've had enough of your bullshit, go sell it to your debunker buddies, your being ignored !" _____________________________________________________ Ha, "dumb ass hillbilly cracker", that's great, "gritz eater" even better, I love it even though 'gritz' is spelled grits, you can't help but like this mom, she has some brass in her. I read what she wrote about normal contrail's as opposed to the non-contrail's and I had no problem in understanding what she was talking about, I see nothing by mom claiming that persistent contrail's do not exist, I think that Reynolds is either reading into her post what he wants to see or mom is right and he's just a "dumb ass hillbilly cracker" and can not read, period. Either way he's made a total ass of himself,............................ again ! ______________________________________________________ Socrates & Swampgas, I've shied away from Halve / Wayne too, as I said, I don't know what's got into him but he seems like he's off the tracks lately, talking pure crap that no one wants to hear or be part of, I wasn't kidding when I suggested that he take a vacation and go sailing for a couple of weeks and clean out the cobwebs, he's in a nice place to do some laid back sailing big time, he should get away from this shit for awhile. I've noticed in the past that both Reynolds and Wayne go off on people that they think are someone else or people they accuse of being someone else, Swamp, I know that you have seen it play out before at CTC, I don't know if their just paranoid or what but it's freaky behavior for sure. I hope that your wrong in Reynolds having a "mole" planted in DBS, that should be a hanging offence for the bastards. Maybe someone should give mom a heads up about that possibility. ( Hint, Hint.(:- ) I agree socrates, mom has a good sense of humor, kind of twisted, I like it, twisted is good when dealing with crud like Reynolds and even Wayne who seems to have gone crackers, I think she is going to do Ok, she seems to carry her own weight pretty well.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 30, 2006 21:30:47 GMT -5
As seen at, www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=643673#post643673Anyone want to start a death pool on that moron Reynolds and Wayne Hall , Jesus, I wouldn't bet a nickel on Reynolds life expectancy or Wayne's after this brain dead stunt. Have they got a death wish or what, you just do not go around calling a solder serving in a war zone a coward, those people in the military are family, you shit on one you shit on them all, someone is going to off that moron Reynolds and Wayne will be fortunate if he just gets his bones broken, what were they thinking? __________________________________________________ mom-P-3 I was at a friends home today and we were talking about chemtrails, global warming and stuff like that and we looked at 'Debate Both Sides' so I could show my friend what was going on with the post, well, we could not believe the latest Reynolds crap and that little worm Halve joining in, below is just some of the vile crap that was written about me and my husband, I was ignoring this Reynolds and Halva but I have no choice but to respond to their attack, calling me names is one thing but calling my husband a COWARD while he is in Iraq fighting for our rights is far beyond lowlife, please read the following and judge for yourself just who the real "coward's" are here. ________________________________________________ Quote: Reynolds "If Mom has any guts whatsoever, she will provide an answer. However, 'Mom' is a coward and won't be responsive to even basic questions about the hoax because the answers reveal it to be a simple fabrication. For that matter, her own 'alleged' husband is also a coward. The spineless so-called man Rather than speaking out publicly by name about what would be illegal military activity(which he is obliged to do as a military man), he sends his cowardly wife out to speak for him! What's wrong with your husband, 'Mom', why is he so lily-livered he can't speak for himself? He reveals himself to be an abject coward(if he even exists) at best, hiding behind a woman's skirt." _________________________________________________ Quote: Halva "Hiding behind a woman's skirt" __________________________________________________ COWARD? Let me tell you two worthless pieces of cow dung something, you two smug know it all asses sit at your computers offering your vile venom to anyone that comes along with an opinion differing from your own, you two obnoxious little boy's think your somehow so much smarter and better than everyone else, elitist are what you are, spoiled little brats pretending to be big bad men through your computers, Ha, your both pathetic jokes of the male species, real men do not attack and abuse women but then I never heard anyone say that a socially inept, redneck, hillbilly, dumb ass cracker or a piss ant Greek pass for men ! COWARD? My husband is no coward you dirt bag's, he is in Iraq someplace, I don't even know where he is, they won't let him say for security reasons, the last time I had contact with him he had just been out in some crap hole called Al Najaf with thirty other solders getting shot at, I won't hear from him again until after he returns from his operations and gets back to Baghdad, so, while my husband out in Iraq someplace getting shot at with other solders, you two big brave A-Holes are sitting safe and sound behind you computers calling him a coward, what gives you two low life's the right? COWARD? Have either one of you social misfits ever served in the military, stupid question on my part, of course you haven't, what was I thinking, your both a couple of bottom feeders that could not possibly understand why someone would choose a career in the military as my husband has, your both far to selfish and full of yourselves to understand what service to country is and what it means to really love your country enough to fight for it, you two pathetic excuses for what passes as human obviously do not love anything, your far to full of hate to comprehend such values. COWARD? I'll have you two want to be's that will never be anything know that my husband was an instructor at Fort Drum prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq, he was called up at forty years old to go and fight in Iraq, he did not want to do it because he did not believe Bush or the reasons that were given to go to war with Iraq but he's a solder so he followed his orders, he's still following his orders even if he does not agree as to the reasons why we are in Iraq, as long as my husband is in the military he feels duty bound to follow orders and that's not the same as blindly doing Bush's bidding, my husband detest Bush but loves being in the Army, on his last deployment (Not reenlistment stupid) he said just before he left for Iraq that he thought things were going to get a lot worse over there and he didn't want to babysit a civil war and he hoped that the troops would be pulled if that happened but he also said that Bush was pigheaded stubborn and might just let them all rot in Iraq and it might take another president to get us out of Iraq. COWARD? No, my husband is no coward, he's a solder doing what he took an oath to do, protecting the United States from enemy's, both foreign and domestic while REAL COWARDS like you two sit all comfy at you computers and belittle the solders wife, how ver brave of you, you must be quite proud of yourselves. Coward, take a look in the mirror if your looking for a coward, the coward will be that sorry ass puke looking back at you ! Well, Mr. Reynolds, I will not be staying around Debate Both Sides, you and your little Greek friend have shown me quite clearly just what kind of people ( more like animals ) reside at this forum and you will just have to excuse me if I do not want to stick around and be constantly abused by the resident attack dog's, so, you can brag now that you have "WON" , triumphed yet again over a chemmie, another great conquest to your credit to inflate your already huge ego, yes you have "WON", just what you've won I'm not sure of, perhaps getting me to leave this forum but at what cost, you did so by calling a brave American solder a COWARD who by no fault of his own is currently deployed to Iraq and can not be here to defend himself from your accusations. Please don't take this as a threat but I can not help but wonder how the entire 110th Mountain Division or for that matter everyone in the military serving in Iraq is going to react to your thoughts that they are just COWARDS when I e-mail this post to my husband at battalion headquarters in Baghdad, on that note Mr. Reynolds / Halva, good by and good luck, something tells me your both going to need it. Please, to all who read this, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, THEY DESERVE BETTER THAN TO BE CALLED COWARDS BY THE LIKES OF JAY REYNOLDS AND HIS ILK, thank you.
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Post by socrates on Sept 30, 2006 21:57:48 GMT -5
As seen at, www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=643673#post643673Have they got a death wish or what, you just do not go around calling a solder serving in a war zone a coward, those people in the military are family, you shit on one you shit on them all, someone is going to off that moron Reynolds and Wayne will be fortunate if he just gets his bones broken, what were they thinking? Oh man, that is one crazy place. This is what I was trying to tell someone over at Megasprayer. You just ignore that cretin. You can talk about his posts, but you don't respond directly to such trolls. If one wants to be a "leader" in anything, you don't stoop to low common denominators. Just because we in America look real ugly and like obnoxious thugs doesn't mean we or most of us are. One needs to present themselves a certain way. It appears to me that Debate Both Sides is a psy-op palace for divide and conquer politics. I think we are due for another fake pilot soon. It sure looks like there is a never ending fake fight over at that slingfest palace between the "chemmie" and the "debunker". Reynolds Wrap also said Swampgas is Mom. What is up with these clowns trying to dominate every "chemtrail" thread in existence? Geez, I've just been trying to make up for lost time and am trying to go with the flow, help truth find momemtum, therefore the name Socrates. Yet, as I said at Megasprayer, it's not supposed to be about our names. It is about the points we make and the facts we use to back them up. Geez, if someone anonymous can make good points with decent links, then who cares who made the post, the truth is out there. Other clowns simply want to amp up the troll noise.
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Post by halva on Sept 30, 2006 23:02:08 GMT -5
Oh man, that is one crazy place. This is what I was trying to tell someone over at Megasprayer. You just ignore that cretin. You can talk about his posts, but you don't respond directly to such trolls. You yourself are not ignoring him, Socrates. You are attracting attention to him on other forums, giving him things to write about, and lowering the quality of other forums as alternatives to "Debate both Sides". Even if you did ignore him rather than just telling others to do so, ignoring is not enough. The kind of activity he engages in has to be made impossible.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 30, 2006 23:33:34 GMT -5
Hi socrates,
Even though I'm a bit of a redneck at heart I agree with your thoughts, we should strive to be better, not worse, the Reynolds types put fourth the worst, I'd like to think that we can do better that, as you said, we are not all thugs here in America.
That said, I think Reynolds has really done it this time though, even for him this is a new low, it's not going to surprise me one bit when I read that someone blew his brains out or if he just goes missing, calling an active duty solder serving in a war zone a coward is just like inviting the entire U.S. military over to your house to kill you, the moron just could not keep his mouth shut and that's probably just what is going to get him dead, his crude, vile mouth and you know something, I don't even care, I just hope that whoever does it gets away clean, If it does happen it should be considered a public service, I know that's kind of harsh thinking but just imagine no more Reynolds,...........Amen !
Wayne isn't playing with a full deck either lately, he's flirting with that reptile Reynolds again, keeping him company, even agreeing with him, if he's not careful he is going to get sucked into the sewer with Reynolds, I sent him an e-mail and asked him if he was nut's, had a death wish and asked what the hell he was thinking, I hope he snaps out of this Prozac craze that he has been in for the past month or so, he has not been right since he got on the Crutzen, sulfur kick and took that beating by Chem11.
Looks like 'mom' has had enough of the crap at "Debate Both Sides", how's that for irony, "Debate Both Sides", more like come on in and get beat on by the resident assholes, well, I think mom will be Ok, she seems tough enough but I think Reynolds hurt her with his ignorant bullshit, I wish her well, I like her style.
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Post by altitudelou on Sept 30, 2006 23:41:58 GMT -5
Wayne,
Your a freaking dickhead lately, what's the matter with you, agreeing with that reptile Reynolds, never mind socrates,why are YOU encouraging Reynolds to attack someone like 'mom', who's side are you really on anyway !
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Post by halva on Oct 1, 2006 3:05:31 GMT -5
The extreme reactions to what is going on over there at "Debate Both Sides" have to do with something we know well in the Balkans.
Fortunately in the latest outbreak of it in the last decade of the twentieth century, Greece has so far been spared the worst of it.
Our neighbours to the north, particularly former Yugoslavia, have fared much worse.
What happens is that the unsuspecting citizenry of the country start to see fellow-citizens behaving as if under the spell of a death-wish. Insulting - relentlessly attempting to humiliate - the wives of soldiers on active duty, indeed challenging the manhood of the soldier husband - is just one manifestation of it.
The underlying impulse is to disintegrate the polity and the state. It makes no difference from this viewpoint whether the policies of the state in question are policies of would-be self-preservation, as was the case with Yugoslavia, or whether they are expansionist and aggressive. It is part and parcel of the behaviour of the disintegrators that they blur and confuse the distinction between aggression and self-defence. Mere continuation in life is portrayed as aggression.
Megasprayer seems to be delinking from this controversy over "Debate Both Sides" and I am certainly not going to do anything to try to change that, which I have been recommending.
Here at Gastronamus Cafe you are obviously intending to continue monitoring what is going on over there with Reynolds.
Since you won't take my advice to ignore it, is there any interest in trying to do something about it?
Reynolds may well have gone over the line with his attacks on "Mom". If "Mom"'s last post doesn't persuade the "moderators" at Debate Both Sides to kick Reynolds off, nothing will.
Probably nothing will, but if you want to try to do something, I have no other suggestion. If you don't want to try to do something, what is the motive behind the monitoring?
Boomer Chick is not a loved person here, and I do not respect her. But she did succeed in getting Jim Phelps kicked off Arianna's as it then was. Is that a qualification?
An American citizen might also want to contact "Mom" and see if she will actively support an appeal to Lib or whoever to remove Reynolds.
Don't attack me please for giving you this advice. I repeat that I would prefer it if everyone here and at Megasprayer just ceased paying any attention to what is going on at the Debate Both Sides forum.
If you can't stop the war, switch off the television. What purpose is served by voyeurism?
I will continue at "Debate Both Sides", recommending that people who want to talk about "chemtrails" should go elsewhere.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Oct 1, 2006 10:22:12 GMT -5
halva, I am not following the deabtes very closely, both on Megasprayer or Debate both Sides, so I am not going to comment in great detail. I have enough to think about with Fascism Right Here-Right Now in the USA, Spraying programs, My Job Sitution, Noble Gas gearing up for live perfromances, and my health.
To be following Johnny Spray Reynolds and Groupie Boomerchick is just a fucking waste of time, other than an occasional joke, although direct confrontation does have its merits.
We were watching VoxFux's videos last night, and he made a point that going to these Neo-Con-Run Forums, and posing as "them" to cause dissent among them is the best policy. His point was that Liberals, Progressives, and Constitutionalists are usually more intelligent, nicer, prettier, and more more handsome than these Neo-Con freaks, which I agree. Ryenolds included. We play by the rules, and the Neo-Cons are winning because they fight dirty. His suggesation is to join their forums, and pose as a Neo-Con, but slowly start to break ranks, and make them think you are getting dissatisfied with the Bush Cabal. It does take more imagination. For Reynolds to go to sites as himslef is easy. He is belligerent, unimaginative, confrontational, and hates the Constitution and Decency. It is easy for him to be himself. The only exception is Cydoiniaquest/Jason, who was posing as guntoter, Weatherman714, Buzzkill, Smell, Whitemajikman, and a few others. This person is what is known as a "Rogue Subgenius", someone who has imagination, but is schizophrenic.
Now, I know some people here have gone to these sites posing as them, so the process has already started. Perhaps, halva, you are fighting too clean. Maybe we should take Vox's advice, and start causing conflicts in their ranks. Just a Thought....
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Post by CDsNuTz on Oct 1, 2006 12:36:53 GMT -5
Whats really sad is it has gotten to the point where it would almost be worth the jail time to knock a few teeth down his throat...John boy has got it all wrong and fails to see that users posting under multiple IDs only hardens everyones belief that he's a complete nut job. Who in their right mind would spend so much time analyzing each and every post of said posters.If it quacks like a nut...It likely is...
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 1, 2006 13:47:52 GMT -5
You know, I've been thinking about it and 'mom' could have been just another set up like the "About Jay Reynolds" Tracker thread was at CTC, I doubt that it was but I can't rule it out.
From experience I know that Reynolds can be set up easily, he just reacts to what he reads in a linear thinking mode, no secondary thought process at all involved, he just reads and then barges in like a charging bull bent on a kill when it is in fact he who is being set up for the kill, he does not consider what the other person might be trying to accomplish with their writing.
Most of us read something and stop and think about it, if it's confrontational we reason whether or not it's fact or fiction, baiting or for real, Reynolds seems incapable of doing this, time after time he has shown that he only has a narrow, linear thought process going on in which he reads and impulsively attacks, a bad trait that makes him very gullible and open to manipulation.
In this 'mom' situation, if he was set up it could very well prove fatal for the slow thinking Reynolds, being led and goaded into making "COWARD" statements with regard to active duty military involved in the fighting in Iraq shows how little Reynolds actually thinks before responding to others and "not thinking" is just stupid on his part, whether or not 'mom' was for real is a moot point, Reynolds rage and stupidity have put him in an intractably bad situation with any military person that happens to read the DBS post in question and I have no doubt but that there will be many in the service that do read it, word will spread fast about this Reynolds that thinks that those serving in the U.S. military are just cowards. ( Way to go John Boyd, your a real prize.)
Does anyone know if there is a local newspaper in Calico Rock, Arkansas, I'd like to subscribe so I can keep an eye on the obituaries !
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Post by socrates on Oct 1, 2006 14:06:18 GMT -5
Wayne, Your a freaking dickhead lately, what's the matter with you, agreeing with that reptile Reynolds, never mind socrates,why are YOU encouraging Reynolds to attack someone like 'mom', whose side are you really on anyway ! Take note how he "who I shalt not name" never responds to the body shots. This is why I had to go over to the fight club, and even then he refused to explain the nonsense. There's nothing more annoying than someone who is so selective in their responses. Why did he egg on Frank Burns? Someone has exposed themselves the last few months and seems to be on the same payroll as Righty McWingnut. Once a lot of great truths emerged recently over the geo-engineering strategies, there to be seen all across the mainstream, what better time for the trolls to try to change the subject back to their inane bitchfest?
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Post by socrates on Oct 1, 2006 14:21:59 GMT -5
What's really sad is it has gotten to the point where it would almost be worth the jail time to knock a few teeth down his throat...John boy has got it all wrong and fails to see that users posting under multiple IDs only hardens everyones belief that he's a complete nut job. Who in their right mind would spend so much time analyzing each and every post of said posters.If it quacks like a nut...It likely is... Over at the Huffingpoop Post, they allow tons of schizos/paid trolls to post. This is a common tool used by the propagandists at internet forums. They are trying to manipulate by astroturfing, by trying to create fake grassroots movements. I don't think it would ever be worth it to get in trouble by fighting someone like this. You'd end up asking yourself why you'd get yourself in trouble because of that troll. "They" don't want the masses to connect the dots, that sulfur whitens skies. "They" love what is going on at DBS. It is nothing less than fake wrestling, except in this case, its main motivativation is to obfuscate the truth that "chemtrails" have been proven as real. This is simply just more of the marketing of pollution. They want us to forget about the pollution in the skies and instead focus in on mysogynistic attacks on an Iraqi War soldier's wife.
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Post by socrates on Oct 1, 2006 14:41:28 GMT -5
You know, I've been thinking about it and 'mom' could have been just another set up like the "About Jay Reynolds" Tracker thread was at CTC, I doubt that it was but I can't rule it out. From experience I know that Reynolds can be set up easily, he just reacts to what he reads in a linear thinking mode, no secondary thought process at all involved, he just reads and then barges in like a charging bull bent on a kill when it is in fact he who is being set up for the kill, he does not consider what the other person might be trying to accomplish with their writing. Most of us read something and stop and think about it, if it's confrontational we reason whether or not it's fact or fiction, baiting or for real, Reynolds seems incapable of doing this, time after time he has shown that he only has a narrow, linear thought process going on in which he reads and impulsively attacks, a bad trait that makes him very gullible and open to manipulation. In this 'mom' situation, if he was set up it could very well prove fatal for the slow thinking Reynolds, being led and goaded into making "COWARD" statements with regard to active duty military involved in the fighting in Iraq shows how little Reynolds actually thinks before responding to others and "not thinking" is just stupid on his part, whether or not 'mom' was for real is a moot point, Reynolds rage and stupidity have put him in an intractably bad situation with any military person that happens to read the DBS post in question and I have no doubt but that there will be many in the service that do read it, word will spread fast about this Reynolds that thinks that those serving in the U.S. military are just cowards. ( Way to go John Boyd, your a real prize.) Does anyone know if there is a local newspaper in Calico Rock, Arkansas, I'd like to subscribe so I can keep an eye on the obituaries ! Lou, I can understand your anger at Reynolds who has singled you out yet again for his typical character assassination approach. He claims you are Mom just because of a few similar spelling mistakes. I have read many forums. The same mistakes are made all the time by the thousands. Are all those people the same just because they mix up their with there or something. I don't think so. I agree that there is a spy versus spy element to this. Reynolds Wrap does seem too quick on the draw in responding. When I get trolled I usually try to wait a bit before responding, try to think it out. Sometimes as with someone I shalt not name I simply end up ignoring them. Someone who I shalt not name is mistaken in his approach to the wingnut. The wingnut hates being banned. He hates to be spoken about and not be able to respond. All he can do is copy and paste from other websites and place it at DBS where as CDsNuTz is correct in saying this more than shows that this particular wingnut is crazy. Someone like Reynolds Wrap, I would never even interact with except for maybe a few posts to nail him for his lies. As I wrote before, it doesn't matter who makes the posts. It matters most what is in the posts. Finally, what is really getting to me and which I think is more important than this thread is what is with the karma thing under our names? But seriously, I think Reynolds is going nuts because all these long threads make him look like the clown he is and it drives him nuts that he can't respond or get a response from any of us. Someone who I shalt not name might want to take heed to that. Or What does Dave Stewart think? ?? Just kidding, don't want to know. Reynolds is a nut simply because his main argument is that "chemtrails" are a hoax discussed among nuts and sickos like us, yet he spends so much time and years parsing over every pro-chemtrail thread he sees. If it's such a crazy hoax, why won't he just go away? ________________________________________________ Instant karma's gonna get you, knock you right off your feet, better get yourself together ...... war is over if u want it John Lennon
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 1, 2006 15:00:58 GMT -5
Hi soc,
I didn't see your post before writing this below but I agree with you, it's not about the poster as much as it is about the post, Reynolds could be the exception of that though, so many people absolutely hate him for his vile crap it has to be about him, I just had a look at DBS and saw the latest , wroth the following about it.
Ah, I see that Reynolds is up to his old tricks of playing his accusatory shell game, was it Socrates, Swampgas, Oh no, it was Lou Aubuchont or maybe it was the three bears, that dammed Al Gore, "No", it was Clinton, that bastard, LOL !
See,.....http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=19113&page=127&pp=10
Ha, Reynolds is beside himself and pissing out of his nose trying to assign blame to "we chemmies" yet again for the person called 'mom" at DBS, doesn't the slow thinking moron Reynolds realize that the damage has already been done when he called a U.S. serviceman a coward, all of his ranting and raving after the fact isn't going to make that go away no matter how loud he hollers or who he tries to blame for his own stupidity
(Hey John Boyd, get a clue, stupid is as stupid does and it looks like you just won first prize in the stupid contest,............. again !)
I think that Reynolds is playing the blame game again because he knows that he screwed up with his "coward solder" crap and he knows that his ass is going to be hunted for it, now he's pissed off and looking for someone to blame for his own brain dead crap on, it's everyone's fault but his own, yup, that's the John Boyd I know alright, to bad he's just spinning his wheels, his rant has no value.
So, I guess that kind of follows your thinking of it's the post, not the poster if we consider Reynolds as just entertainment, something contrived by the Right Wing Fox News crew no doubt,......... lol !
Take care, watch out for that Bastard Clinton, everything is his fault you know, 'mom', apple pie, Reynolds stupidity, all us chemmies, to bad he can't run, I'd sure vote for him,........ again !
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Post by halva on Oct 1, 2006 17:23:11 GMT -5
You know, I've been thinking about it and 'mom' could have been just another set up like the "About Jay Reynolds" Tracker thread was at CTC, I doubt that it was but I can't rule it out. I think it became clear almost immediately that she was genuine. My own initial suspicion was due entirely to the fact that her appearance was so providential when I had run out of ideas about what to do next. But of course she wouldn't be able to stick it for long.
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 1, 2006 18:59:43 GMT -5
Halva wrote, "I think it became clear almost immediately that she was genuine. My own initial suspicion was due entirely to the fact that her appearance was so providential when I had run out of ideas about what to do next. But of course she wouldn't be able to stick it for long." _________________________________________________ Wayne _ You know just how I feel about your lack of support for 'mom' while she was getting mauled by Reynolds, DBS is your home and you did nothing, in fact you aided Reynolds in his attack on 'mom', now your over here touting accolades of her, what gives with you lately, are smoking crack or what? Obviously 'mom' is gone from DBS now, had she had a little support from you she might have stuck around in spite of that moron Reynolds, you know my feelings and why I won't join in at DBS so it falls on you to keep your own house_ enough said? __________________________________________________ I see rat boy Reynolds is being his usual petty self at DBS, still ranting like someone might care, back to his old tricks of distorting, twisting and lying as to the truth, pathetic little jerk. Quote: Reynolds"The truth is, there is no such 110th Mountain Division.!!! There is, however, a 10th Mountain Division." www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=19113&page=128&pp=10___________________________________________________________________ Reynolds is caught blatantly lying about the 110th Military Intelligence Battalion which is separate but part of the 10th Mountain Division, Fort Drum, New York, scum Reynolds will say anything to make people believe his crap and he is still badgering and taking advantage of a woman that obviously got in over her head with a mad dog. Mom explained in her post "my husband was an instructor at Fort Drum prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq, he was called up at forty years old to go and fight in Iraq", no doubt he was with the 10th Mountain Division stationed at Fort Drum as an instructor and when he was called active to go to Iraq he was probably attached to the110th Military Intelligence Battalion in a security force role, being in the military I can understand how various activation's work and it is not uncommon for what is called "loose personnel" to be reassigned to a particular unit or duty station, as Reynolds has never served his country in the military he obviously has no clue about military protocol and what constitutes an activation call up involving reassignment, all he has is his best guess from "Googling" and what he tries to pass off as his version of the truth as he has no real experience with the military of his own to rely on. ( he's just another armchair quarterback who thinks he knows everything. ) Reynolds attempts to confuse and obfuscate the facts by twisting and outright lying about them surface all to frequently in his raving attacks on his victims, as with the fact that there is indeed a 110th Military Intelligence Battalion which is part of the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, New York, the key words in the site text below are "separate battalion of the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry)." 'Mom" was correct in saying that her husband was with the 110 Mountain Division as the 110th and 10th are one and the same, Reynolds is just picking his nose again and playing with his boogers while he tries to find petty points to rant and rave about, all anyone is going to remember about this whole "mom" thread at DBS is Reynolds calling an active duty solder fighting in the Iraq war a COWARD, that's something that is going to follow him to his grave. Haven't we all seen this play out before, how many times now, it's the same old, same old vintage Reynolds, this show is getting old, we can all pretty much say the same old tired lines right along with John Boyd, it's like watching "Star War's" for the 50th time, everyone knows exactly what's going to be said next, no big surprises, everyone knows how Reynolds rant is going to play out, twisting lies and all, the soap that is Reynolds. www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/110mi.htm110thMilitary Intelligence Battalion Fort Drum New York. Originally constituted into the regular Army as four provisional companies attached to the 10th Support Command on 28 June 1988, the 110th Military Intelligence Battalion was activated at Fort Drum, New York on 13 December 1988 as a separate battalion of the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry). "The truth is, there is no such 110th Mountain Division.!!!", Oh really John Boyd, what is this then, more chemmie lies? "Separate battalion OF the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry)", Reynolds, your such an ass towel !
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Post by Swamp Gas on Oct 1, 2006 19:10:54 GMT -5
halva, I notice that Arcturus is back too at DBS. Reynolds thinks I am Arcturus. Curious, that he keeps thinking that someone else is someone else. Now Arcturus is added to his list of people I am. He probably doesn't know that I am actually there, but not under that name, and I am friendly with him. The list is as follows that I, swampgas actually am according to Johnny Spray:
Thetaloops EMFX13 DannyRock Mech Jeanie chem11 bigjoe Arcturus JerseyBlueyz bhang David
Thetaloops just said that Johnny Spray Reynolds is a bad name that won't go away. I liken him more to a boil on an ass that won't go away. Just the fact that we keep discussing him, that is true. However, Humor and Parody works the best when you have the butt of a joke, in this case the Redneck from Arkansas himself. He really is getting bad now, pointing out spelling errors. It is probably because the government has already admitted in that PDF that sickle/Arcadia (where the hell are you?) admits it. Old Johnny Walker Reynolds Shallots is flailing in the wind. And Lou, you are 100% correct that he spends a lot of time discussing "Nutcases" and "chemmies". If it was so insane, he wouldn't spend much time. But then again, crackpots like Reynolds, who would make a good science professor on Bizarro World, defy logic and common sense all the time, just like his political mentor George W Bush. When he was coming in the Free-For-All Thread at CTC in the Early days, he would praise all of these degenerates like Bush, Ashcroft, Reagen, etc.
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Post by socrates on Oct 1, 2006 19:42:10 GMT -5
...However, Humor and Parody works the best when you have the butt of a joke, in this case the Redneck from Arkansas himself. He really is getting bad now, pointing out spelling errors. It is probably because the government has already admitted in that PDF that sickle/Arcadia (where the hell are you?) admits it. Old Johnny Walker Reynolds Shallots is flailing in the wind. And Lou, you are 100% correct that he spends a lot of time discussing "Nutcases" and "chemmies". If it was so insane, he wouldn't spend much time. I just found this webpage with tons of documents. I think the one you were talking about is there. You do have to sign up for free membership. I might try to google some of it on the list to cut to the chase. Underground DocumentsIf we are so insane, why does he spend so much time wanting to be our "buddies", trying to dialogue with us, read all our posts. Jaybo is the most scrolled fool in internet forum history. He is the Archie Bunker type yet without any redeeming qualities. At least Archie changed a bit by the end. I am against all wars, but it is lunacy to call soldiers cowards. I also think that those who refuse to fight in illegal wars are not cowards either. I think "they" are so desperate that "chemtrails" has been solved, that all "they" have left is to cry it's all nutty tinfoil crap hoaxing. Jay is rather dumb, still living in 1999.
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 1, 2006 20:00:06 GMT -5
Hi Swamp, I totally agree, Rat boy is playing musical posters again, I suppose when you have so many people that literally hate you guts you might tend to be a bit paranoid, Reynolds is way past paranoid ! "When he was coming in the Free-For-All Thread at CTC in the Early days, he would praise all of these degenerates like Bush, Ashcroft, Reagen, etc." Exactly right, this is a point that I have been picking at since I read his bio "About Jay Reynolds" in his web site in which he claims that "he aligned with William Cooper" allegedly to aid Cooper in uncovering government conspiracy's, yeah right, who in there right mind could believe that bullshit after seeing all of the crap he writes in his debunking, the rat bastard is a con artist hypocrite and liar, big time, 'mom' was getting after him about it but he refused to comment, snuck off form that like the weasel that he is. Say, that link that I posted to the 110th Military Intelligence Battalion showing that it was indeed part of the10th Mountain Division out of Fort Drum, New York doesn't seem to work so here is another, I checked this one and it works just fine, I notice that John Boyd did not put up a link, wonder why, Hmmmmm, maybe because he's a LIAR ! www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/110mi.htm110th Military Intelligence Battalion Originally constituted into the regular Army as four provisional companies attached to the 10th Support Command on 28 June 1988, the 110th Military Intelligence Battalion was activated at Fort Drum, New York on 13 December 1988 as a separate battalion OF the 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry).
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Post by halva on Oct 1, 2006 20:42:27 GMT -5
Wayne _ You know just how I feel about your lack of support for 'mom' while she was getting mauled by Reynolds, DBS is your home and you did nothing, in fact you aided Reynolds in his attack on 'mom', now your over here touting accolades of her, what gives with you lately, are smoking crack or what? I told her she was wasting her time, which she was. I admitted about four or five months after Reynolds came barging in over there that I can't prove TO HIM that "chemtrails" exist, and asked him what else he would like me to concede. He could not say, because he does not know. I would discourage anybody from doing what "Mom" was trying to do, but that does not mean I would not applaud them if they ignored my advice.
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 1, 2006 21:05:39 GMT -5
Quote: Halva
"I told her she was wasting her time, which she was. I admitted about four or five months after Reynolds came barging in over there that I can't prove TO HIM that "chemtrails" exist, and asked him what else he would like me to concede. He could not say, because he does not know.
I would discourage anybody from doing what "Mom" was trying to do, but that does not mean I would not applaud them if they ignored my advice." _______________________________________________
Why thanks Wayne, that's just real big of you, I guess that we should all just chuck it and give in to Reynolds like you have.
Oh, don't concern yourself about my not taking your advice, no problem, I'm ignoring just about everything that you have to say after recent exchanges and your lackluster performance at DBS.
You remind me of a two day old balloon that the air has gone out of, your looking deflated !
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Post by socrates on Oct 1, 2006 21:10:46 GMT -5
It would be nice if Arcadia and some of the folks over at Rigorous Intuition where he posts could help us outwith getting some documents. The posters there seem incredible at finding links. I just found one. I guess the key is to squash the troll then get back on topic. This is where "they" underestimate we the tinfoil. The only response trolls have for this one is but those are only proposals, where does it prove this is going on now? I respond get a grip, you've been saying we imagining this, that we just seeing contrails. You can't even admit that us chemmies have a legitemate theory, that you are stuck in 1999. I say check-mate trolls. Sorry if this goes on a while. I make a final comment at the end. Active Climate Stabilization: Practical Physics-Based Approaches to Prevention of Climate Change by Edward Teller, Roderick Hyde and Lowell Wood April 18th, 2002 It also says "Approved for public release; further dissemination unlimited" Debunkers are Full of SomethingExcerpts: Introduction. It’s not generally realized that the Earth’s seasonally-averaged climate is colder now that it’s been 99% of the time since complex life on Earth got seriously underway with the Cambrian Explosion, 545 million years ago. Similarly, it’s not widely appreciated that atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide – CO2– are only very loosely correlated with average climatic conditions over this extended interval of geologic time, in that it’s been much colder with substantially higher air concentrations of CO2 and also much warmer with substantially lower atmospheric levels of CO2 than at present; indeed, the CO2 level in the air is observed in the geologic record to be one of the weaker determinants of globally- and season-averaged temperature. If, all of this thoughtfully considered, one wishes to maintain global climate at its current temperature- level – or at the somewhat higher value characterizing the Holocene Optimum several thousand years ago, or at that lower value of the Little Ice Age of three centuries ago, or at any other reasonable level – then purposeful modification of the basic radiative properties of the Earth – active management of the radiative forcing of the temperature profiles of the Earth’s atmosphere and oceans by the Sun – is an obvious gambit. Indeed, it’s likely the most overall practical approach to this particular issue. The remainder of this presentation will be concerned with how best to effect – to actively manage – the desired changes in radiative forcing of the fluid envelopes of the Earth. “Best” will be determined from considerations of practicality, e.g., the economic efficiency commanded by the UN Framework Convention, as well as minimal interference with human activities, aesthetic considerations, collateral effects, etc. There is certainly no pretense that there is some absolute or utterly objective means of determining this practicality; rather, the range of examples given are merely illustrative of what might be accomplished in the very near term, how much it might cost, and what some of its more obvious 'externalities' might be. * Prepared for invited presentation at the National Academy of Engineering Symposium Complements to Kyoto: Technologies for Controlling CO2 Emissions, National Academy of Sciences, 2101 Constitution Avenue NW, Washington This article was submitted to the National Academy of Engineering Symposium Washington, D.C. April 23 – 24, 2002 April 18, 2002 Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory U.S. Department of Energy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Page 2 This document was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor the University of California nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately owned rights... The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of the United States Government or the University of California, and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes. This work was performed under the auspices of the U.S. Department of Energy by University of California, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory under Contract W-7405-Eng-48. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Page 3 -1- ACTIVE CLIMATE STABILIZATION: Practical Physics-Based Approaches to Prevention of Climate Change * ... ABSTRACT We offer a case for active technical management of the radiative forcing of the temperatures of the Earth’s fluid envelopes, rather than administrative management of atmospheric greenhouse gas inputs, in order to stabilize both the global- and time- averaged climate and its mesoscale features. We suggest that active management of radiative forcing entails negligible – indeed, likely strongly negative – economic costs and environmental impacts, and thus best complies with the pertinent mandate of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. We propose that such approaches be swiftly evaluated in sub-scale in the course of an intensive international program. ... What we’ve done in our studies, set in the context of the UN Framework Convention’s Article 3, 5 is merely to mass- and cost-optimize previous schemes as well as to offer a few new ones, with a little attention given to how near-term studies of such optimized schemes for assuring climatic stability might commence. The comparatively rudimentary atmospheric and oceanic circulation models currently used to predict climate variability with time variously predict increases in mean planetary temperature... Temperature changes of this magnitude-range would also be induced by a change in either solar heating or terrestrial radiative cooling of the order of 4 Watts/m 2 in the space- and time-average, which is of the order of 2%. Thus, if sunlight is to be preferentially scattered back into space, or the Earth induced to thermally radiate more net power, the characteristic surface area involved in changing net solar input by a space- and time- average of 4 Watt/m... Radiative budget control on the scales of present interest thus centers on generating and maintaining coverage of this 1-2% fraction of the Earth’s surface – or, alternately, its Sun-presented disc – with one or another materials which substantially modify the transport of either incoming sunlight (i.e., insolation) or outgoing thermal radiation emitted at-or-near the Earth’s surface over this area. If sunlight is blocked but terrestrial thermal radiation of 20X greater wavelength is allowed to pass on out into space, then the Earth will cool by the desired amount – in the space- and time-average; conversely, if sunlight is allowed to pass through to the Earth’s surface, but terrestrial thermal radiation is blocked from escaping into space, then the Earth will warm by just the same amount – again, in the space- and time-average... 1 Teller E, Wood L and Hyde R, “Global Warming and Ice Ages: I. Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change,” UCRL-JC-128715 (Univ. Calif. Lawrence Liv’r. Nat’l. Lab., August 1997). Also available as www.llnl.gov/global-warm/. 2 Dyson FJ and Marland G., Technical Fixes for the climatic effects of CO2. Workshop on the Global Effects of Carbon Dioxide from Fossil Fuels, USDoE Report CONF-770385 (USDoE, Washington DC, 1979). 3 Panel on Policy Implications of Global Warming, “Policy Implications of Global Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation and the Science Base,” U.S. National Academy of Sciences (National Academy Press, Washington DC 1992). 4 Working Group II, “Climate Change 1995 Impacts, Adaptations and Mitigation of Climate Change: Scientific- Technical Analysis,” Second Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, RT Watson, et al., eds. (Cambridge University Press, 1995). 5 Section 3 of Article III of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change states in part that “policies and measures to deal with climate change should be cost-effective so as to ensure global benefits at the lowest possible cost.” This is often referred to as the Rio [Framework] Convention. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Page 5 -3- Before delving into the first-level details of some of the best ways in which to accomplish this, it’s appropriate to point to the very important results of Govindasamy and Caldeira, who have shown that such fractional removal of insolation uniformly over the entire surface of the Earth not only results in temperature changes of the predicted amounts in the space- and time-average, but also preserves the present climate in its seasonal and geographic detail, at least down through the mesoscales in space and time which are treated more-or-less aptly by present-day global circulation models. These most notable modeling results – which are quite contrary to previous hypotheses unsupported by modeling, but which have been confirmed by subsequent work – indicate that terrestrial climate may be stabilized by addition or subtraction of insolation along the lines that we propose not only “in the large” but also in the considerable spatial and temporal detail of interest to the man-on-the-street who experiences the highest-frequency components of climate as the daily weather in his micro-climate. Govindasamy and Caldeira also have offered a retrospectively plausible mechanistic explanation for why this remarkable set of results, shown in Figure 1 below, might have been expected. Socrates' Final Comment, maybe not Olbermann Special but not Springer either---- If you read between the lines here, these buggers give away a lot of motive and information. If those major chemtrail websites were for real, this whole topic of an ongoing aerosol mitigation program would have surpassed the 9/11 stuff in terms of credibility, which it hasn't because of the media coverup.
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Post by halva on Oct 1, 2006 21:12:24 GMT -5
Of course there is another point - Not that I want to invite "real comrades" to waste their time at Debate Both Sides - Co-ordinating a common strategy with a lady who supports the US occupation of Iraq is not something so very easy. One would have to keep it absolutely single-issue. And "chemtrails" is Reynolds' issue.
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Post by Swamp Gas on Oct 1, 2006 21:39:49 GMT -5
Lou, halva, and Socrates. Please Stop As I said, I don't censor, but this bickering is looking mighty boring. Do you guys want me to set up an invisible fight club? I am anyway, and I'll see if you all want to go there. I'm serious, I think you should all hash this out in private, and we can all go there to express our grievences.
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Post by altitudelou on Oct 2, 2006 17:17:08 GMT -5
swampgas wrote,
Lou, halva, and Socrates.
Please Stop
As I said, I don't censor, but this bickering is looking mighty boring.
Do you guys want me to set up an invisible fight club? I am anyway, and I'll see if you all want to go there.
I'm serious, I think you should all hash this out in private, and we can all go there to express our grievances. __________________________________________________
Yes Swamp, I agree, emotions have been running high lately, I have not been helping the cause by letting my emotions overrule my brain, perhaps Wayne is correct in that we should just forget about Reynolds BS over at DBS and keep our own house, something which just I just told Wayne that he should do with regard to DBS, I guess I should set the example and take my own advise and not discuss what goes on at DBS here.
Starting now I will confine my post to revenant topics here and forgo any further discussion with regard to what's going on at DBS or any other forum.
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